Sept. 30, 2025

Erin's Scam Experience with a Loved One

Erin's Scam Experience with a Loved One
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Season 1

Erin is with us today to discuss his experience with a loved one who was and maybe still is a victim of scams - romance, investment, inheritance, and more.

Join us to get an in depth look into these scams through Erin's eyes.

Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.

WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas. The information contained in this podcast is intended

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for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for

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individual professional legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled

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from vetted sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to

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safeguard the elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall

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victim to a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the

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must listen show for anyone who wants to protect themselves

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and their loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific

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time on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,

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and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips

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on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And

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now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.

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Welcome back everyone, I'm Joyce Petrowski, founder and board president

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of Rose Resources Outreach to Safeguard the elderly. You can

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find more information on our website at Roseadvocacy dot org.

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You'll find our social media links on the homepage, and

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if you scroll all the way to the bottom, you'll

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see where you can sign up for the newsletter. We

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do one via email has a lot more information, but

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we also do one that we send in the mail,

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realizing that not everybody likes to get their information and

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read it on email, So you can sign up for

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one or both as a way to continue to get

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this scam prevention education and to help build your healthy

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skepticism because you need that in today's world with how

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rampant the scams are running. So today we have a guest.

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His name is Aaron. He has been in the cybersecurity

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industry as a leader for a number of years and

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he's going to share his experience.

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Pros. There, can you hear me, Joyce? There?

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He is.

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Left already no.

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Good, good, Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

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Yeah.

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So when I introduced you, I you know, I mentioned

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that you've been a leader in cybersecurity for a number

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of years, but you've all, but you're here to share

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your experience with one of your loved ones being a

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scam victim and how it's affected your relationship, your family

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and all of that. So let's start with just giving

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whatever you feel comfortable with the background on the scam

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and your your loved one.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

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So this this started a number of years ago, and

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that's actually how I came in contact with with you

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and found found Rose because it became one of those

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things that was incredibly frustrating to see happened to a

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loved one, and especially being I have worked in this,

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worked in cybersecurity and led teams and you know, just

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the the resources that are simply non existent and not

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available out there, because this is really comes down to

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it's really not a technical problem, right, It's a human problem.

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It's an emotional problem.

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And so yeah, for for us, it started a few

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years ago with my with my father in law, and

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it starts really small, and so I think the thing

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to think about is like just to notice those little

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red flags that come up. And so for for us,

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it started maybe four or five years ago. It was

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right around COVID times. I remember really specifically because it

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had started.

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Right leading up to.

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Thanksgiving, and we got a you know, kind of a

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weird exchange text message where he had asked for you know, hey,

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I can you know, I need a little bit of

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extra money or whatever I'm going to be because, uh,

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our loved one, my father in law, was very dedicated

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to a church, very involved constantly, you know, working on

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projects with the church to you know, feed feed the needy.

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And so one of the things that came up is

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that he said, oh, you know, I can can maybe

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send me two hundred bucks for we want to buy

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some turkeys or whatever. It was that well, you know,

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we're doing for this thing, right and and we didn't

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think much of it at the time, but like in

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the back of your mind, you're thinking, oh, that's it's

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kind of a strange thing, right because normally very disciplined,

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you know, fixed income, but very disciplined, very good with it.

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And thinking back that, you start to think, like that

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should have been a big a red flag to pick

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up on.

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So, you know, noticing something like that that was.

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Out of out of the norm was, uh, it was

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a red flag that we we probably should have picked

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up on at that time and drilled you.

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In a little bit more.

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Yeah, you know, it's you know, like you said, your

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father in law was very disciplined. He's on a fixed income,

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which a lot of older adults are on a fixed income,

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and he was very disciplined. So he he had a budget,

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and he stayed within that budget and and and all

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of that, and so being scammed would have been probably

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your last thought.

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M exactly.

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No, And and.

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He was very involved in his church and and helping

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those less fortunate and and.

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All of that.

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And so you're like, okay, well it makes sense that

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he's going to be helping people with turkeys at the

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at Thanksgiving time?

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Yeah? Yeah.

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Was there was there another after that? Was there something

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that made you start to want to dive into it deeper? Yeah?

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Yeah, So I think and and and I think this

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this happens to to far too many people. And it

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happened a lot with you know, his folks became a

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little bit more isolated with with the pandemic, and and

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so that every lots everyone challenged with that. And one

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of the catalysts that really kind of accelerated our awareness

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and concerns with with what was going on was his

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his wife had passed away. And so we were, yeah,

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you know, talking with him more regularly and kind of

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getting a sense of it. And then the thing that

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kind of came out of it was, you know, oh, hey,

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I'm I'm you know, I'm I have this you know,

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I'm gonna you know, I have this new girlfriend or

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wife or whatever it is. It's going to come, you know,

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move in with me, right, And so that was really

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the start of the romance scam side of the okay,

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because you know, and didn't didn't this clearly supprise us

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that you know, you know, he was you know, you know,

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very dedicated to his church and you know, companionship and

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and all those things. And we thought, oh, that's it's quick,

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but like, okay, let's let's learn more about it. And

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then at that point, once we learned a little bit

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more about that, he started opening up and sharing and

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then you started to you start to realize that, you know, you're,

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you know, in the midst of a of a pig

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butchering scam, because it's you know, it kind of followed

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followed all the same patterns of how they're going to

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come move with me, Oh they can't move. There was

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a car accident. Yeah, now, they're in the hospital, we

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just have to you know, send some money to to

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release them from the hospital. And so in in in

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those in those situations where it's it's really challenging. And

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then that's where I started doing the research to try

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and find like, how do you how do you talk

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to someone with this because there's no reasoning, right because

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in their minds, that person's real, right, Like that's a

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loved one about that's in the hospital that you're saying absolutely,

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that's not a real thing, right, And you know, the

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thing that we always try to be delicate about was

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not too upset or push away and just kind of

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lead with some empathy because that you take a hardline stance.

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And my wife is way more empathetic than me and

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better than it.

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I'm I am more direct in a lot of those senses.

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But but this but the second that you go to

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rack and you say this is not real, this is

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you know, this is bad, you risk the chance of

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getting shut out, right. And so you see that all

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the time across these instances where people isolate themselves from

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their family because they are so ingrained with with with

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their with their scamera. That's that's just grooming them constantly, right.

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Exactly right.

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So I mean did he did he ever come out

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and say, like how long he had been engaging in

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conversation and relationship with this person? Because you know, we

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always say with the romance and the pig butchering and stuff,

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there's grooming involved, right, And it the longer they're in it,

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the harder and harder it is to try to get

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them to understand while, yes, this person is real, they're

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not who they say they are.

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They're not in the hospital.

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And doctor Martina Dove was on last month and she

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even said, you know, people have to understand that the

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groomer is a real person. It's someone that that the

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victim believes has invested a lot of time with and

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it's extremely difficult to change their.

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Mind, oh one hundred percent.

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Especially becomes much more challenging in a remote situation where

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we we live in different states, and so you know,

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we we live for those few moments where either we

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travel to go be there, and we've we had done

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that a couple of times. And I'll kind of explain

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and talk about that in a second here, but but

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this this was with him all the time, right, all

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the time, and and it's just yeah, a constant, constant

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stream of you know, messages and contact. And but but

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to your to your original question, uh, because we later

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kind of found out that I think it had been

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going on prior to that, where there was some inheritance

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things kind of going on that had led up prior

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to that of like, you know, because he had read

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around that same time with the romance romance scam situation.

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He had also sent a link that said, oh what

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do you think of this house? Oh, it's it's going

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to be mine. It's you know, it's going to be inherited, right,

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And so with with many of the situations, you you know,

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you become a you're a target rich environment, your phone

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number becomes available, and then he was just getting you know,

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propagated with with multiple different types of things and so and.

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He was vulnerable because he had just lost his wife right.

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Exactly exactly, and we think it maybe it started kind

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of leading up to that, you know, prior to that,

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but then just uh had you know, exponentiously gone gone

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up after after that, and so yeah, and then and

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then it got to the point after kind of those conversations,

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the Thanksgiving thing, the you know, the inheritance house situation,

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the romance scam, and the hospital thing, and then it

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finally reached to the point, it was like June or

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June or July where we got the phone call that hey,

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actually I'm gonna I'm gonna was my my home.

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Right so he'd owned his home outright, but the you.

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Know, the the land fees and the homeowners association things

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like that had gotten to the point where that wasn't

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being paid for multiple months on months, months on end,

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where the terms of his you know, the community that

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he lived in dictated that his house was going to

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go up for auction if he didn't set up those things.

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And so.

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When we got that phone call, we've sort of been

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aware and having those conversations that you know, we we

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knew it was, you know, uh absolutely, I'm not gonna

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you know, send you a check. I'm not gonna wire

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you because I I don't know where it's going to go.

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So we we got car, drove and went there in

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person who you know, physically I you know, we physically

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hand delivered it to the you know, the correct agency

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00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.000
right that was, you know, that was responsible for the thing,

228
00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:58.519
because we because at that point then you know, I'm

229
00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:01.360
a very much uh you know, trust but verify, but

230
00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:07.080
still not trust anyone, right, and so yeah, exactly, And

231
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:11.120
so we've gone through the paperwork and talked to the

232
00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:15.919
the company that operated the community there, and so went

233
00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:17.600
went in person and paid it. And then that's where

234
00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:22.399
we spent spent a few days and really learned the

235
00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:27.039
extent of of what had been going on and really

236
00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:30.639
tried to work with you know, a path forward of

237
00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:34.559
setting the budget, ending the communications. And I thought we

238
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:36.320
were in a good place. And then the second that

239
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:41.360
we left, you know, it was back to a store

240
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.480
to pick up a gift card. And at that point

241
00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:50.200
we had you know, set up a power of attorney

242
00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:55.679
and gotten to the point where we uh got on

243
00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:59.039
access to the bank account and those kind of things,

244
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.960
and you know, his his account.

245
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.039
Was was riddled with thread flags.

246
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:04.840
Like that weekend we were out there and talked to

247
00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:07.759
his bank because there have been multiple instances where his

248
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.720
bank was trying to do the right thing and he

249
00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:13.039
try and withdraw cash. And so he had gotten to

250
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:17.840
the point where the uh you know controls that that

251
00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:21.639
banking entity had put on his account dictated that he

252
00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:24.440
wasn't allowed to use an ATM, right, like they would say,

253
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:27.559
you want cash, you have to come inside and oh wow,

254
00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:29.679
yeah and put it on there. And so then those

255
00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:32.879
those are really good things, right that that that you know,

256
00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:36.559
financial institution was was doing. But at the end of

257
00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:38.480
the day, if he comes in and says, I need

258
00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:40.679
to take twenty dollars out of my bank account, like

259
00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:42.039
they're gonna.

260
00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:44.799
They can they can only stop for so long to

261
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:47.039
ask questions and to try to get But you know,

262
00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.519
I've talked to so many people and I'm I'm sure

263
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:51.799
your father in law did this too.

264
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:53.720
Is you know that.

265
00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:57.519
They would lie because they were already emotionally drawn in

266
00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:04.399
so and the the scammer are they're anticipating these questions

267
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.320
that are being asked and they're giving them the responses.

268
00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:11.200
Mm hmm, yep, absolutely yeah.

269
00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:14.519
And it's a it's a it's a challenging, heartbreaking situation

270
00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.519
because it when you see it up close like that,

271
00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:23.080
it really is, you know, like a drug addict, right,

272
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:26.320
It's it's someone that's a that has a physical dependency

273
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:33.279
or a drug addiction, all of that exactly. And you know,

274
00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.840
there's no amount of logic and reason that's gonna gonna

275
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.799
shake someone out of that and so and then when

276
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:41.639
when we were there in person, that's where we realized

277
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:47.720
that just the amount of times his his phone was

278
00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:51.320
just going off constantly, Right, it's just paying after paying,

279
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:52.559
after paying, after pain.

280
00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:56.679
Of just you know, people asking for things.

281
00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:00.759
It's it's just a continuous cycle where and that's and

282
00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.759
that's where you know, it becomes really challenging for people,

283
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:06.320
especially in a remote situation, is that it really comes

284
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:10.360
down to relationships and trust and and you know, having

285
00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.879
a good enough relationship with transparency around what's going on

286
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:19.240
in your life are you communicating with online? And it

287
00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.879
can become a real real challenge if that that foundational

288
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:24.000
relationship isn't.

289
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:27.720
There, right, Yeah, and you mentioned COVID that this started

290
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:33.159
right before COVID. It just put everybody. I mean, if

291
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.080
that was a whirlwind for scammers, right, especially with the

292
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.759
older adults. They were if they didn't have somebody that

293
00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:43.480
they lived with, a spouse, a partner, family, whoever it was,

294
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:47.399
they were isolated, right. They couldn't you couldn't go out

295
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.559
and play cards, you couldn't go play golf, you couldn't do.

296
00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:52.039
Any of this. Everything was shut down.

297
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:57.039
And that's a perfect storm, right, and having the vulnerabilities

298
00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:01.679
of you know, your the world being so much different

299
00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:04.039
now than it was when. And I'm going to say

300
00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:07.759
we because I'm in that category. You know, I just

301
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.000
turned sixty, so I'm in that older adult category. How

302
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.640
we grew up. It's it's totally different, right. And I

303
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:20.039
find myself today, you know, just meeting somebody and they're

304
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.519
really nice and this and that, and I start to

305
00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:25.960
I start to talk, and I'm thinking to myself, wait

306
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:29.160
a minute, Choyce, you don't know this person, right, But

307
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:33.240
it's it's kind of ingrained in you, right that everybody's

308
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.000
out for your best interest. You don't hang up on people,

309
00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:40.759
you don't question authority, and you know you're always there

310
00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:41.160
to help.

311
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:45.680
So yeah, it's crazy, but but.

312
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:51.200
Yeah, yeah, And that was a big kind of recurring

313
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.160
theme that we talked to because, like I said, he

314
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.160
was very heavily involved in his church, and so I

315
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.920
think part of the when we had gone out there

316
00:17:57.960 --> 00:17:59.680
and started to get in contact with some of the

317
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:02.480
leadership from his church and some of the folks that had,

318
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.480
you know, kind of seen it firsthand, is is those

319
00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.599
they were our eyes on the ground, you know, and

320
00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:10.400
you know, we got to a point where we were

321
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:13.680
really thankful that folks like that that were near him,

322
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.160
close with him in his community were able to kind

323
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:18.279
of provide us information and tell us what was really

324
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:19.279
really going on, and.

325
00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:20.359
That was super helpful.

326
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:23.039
But but a big thing that we talked a lot

327
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.279
about with many of those folks was like, what does

328
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:28.319
this say? You know, is it just you know, a

329
00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:30.759
stubborn thing. Is it part of a generational thing? Is

330
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:34.359
that I don't want to ask for help? But like

331
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.680
I think it it really becomes something much much bigger

332
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:43.079
than that, Like I think it, Yeah, absolutely, generational and

333
00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:46.119
cultural norms do do feed into it, but I think

334
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:50.359
it really it becomes a you know, a physical or

335
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.559
mental dependency and then not not letting go of that,

336
00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:59.079
of that belief because you know, with you know, as

337
00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:01.200
it got went ontle bit later and we started to

338
00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:04.079
learn about some of the other kind of inheritance scams

339
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.039
that he was going and you're you're talking about you know,

340
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.240
exorbitant amounts of money, right, you know, tens of billions

341
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:12.759
of dollars that he said are going to be coming

342
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:17.119
coming to him, and then you start to you know,

343
00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:20.960
you still can't have a logical conversation about it, right,

344
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:25.519
because you can't say, oh, the you know, the you're

345
00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:27.839
going to inherit the GDP of a you know, a

346
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:31.720
sovereign nation, right, like, there's no logical reason to think it, right, that.

347
00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.160
Just doesn't make sense, right.

348
00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:35.400
But you and I are sitting here in our rational

349
00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:39.240
thought frame of mind thinking of it. He's knee deep

350
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.960
in his emotions with you know, was it the same

351
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:45.480
person that was contacting him all the time or.

352
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:50.440
Yeah, they like friends of the of the scammer. You know,

353
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:52.200
I say friends in quotes.

354
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:57.240
Because potentially, but yeah, potentially he was on different lots

355
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.680
of different chat ops, right, so like you know, Telegram, WhatsApp,

356
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:05.559
all of the various different apps. Yeah, definitely using a

357
00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:12.160
lot of the different money money apps, so cash app, PayPal,

358
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.400
you know, some of the Zeal some of those other

359
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.599
other ones, And I think, yeah, some of those are

360
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:21.640
better than others, right as far as like the controls

361
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:24.960
that they that they take place, and yeah, you know

362
00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:27.319
red food flags that come up and like that even

363
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.119
with myself when I use that, right, like a transaction

364
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:32.359
that I had never done with someone before kind of

365
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:35.079
got got got flagged, Like oh yeah, that's that's a

366
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.279
that's a good thing. But but but I think that

367
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:41.599
that's the other thing too, is like once you know,

368
00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.039
he got to the point where you know, hey, money

369
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:47.599
money stied. I can't I don't have the money to

370
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:49.400
to go get another fifty dollars gift card or one

371
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:50.279
hundred dollars gift.

372
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:50.759
Card or whatever.

373
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:54.319
And and that's where we started noticing like, hey, there's

374
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.640
you know, there's a stack of like and he showed

375
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:01.039
us there's like a stack of you know, twenty five

376
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.880
different cash App debit cards that had come in, like, oh,

377
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:06.200
I have all these different cash App cards. And so

378
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.160
it got to the point where he was moving there.

379
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.000
There's instances where and this this is a common thing,

380
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.880
right where maybe that that victim has become you know,

381
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.960
the well has run dry, right that it's the resource

382
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.119
has been exhausted, but there's still some type of use

383
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.559
for the for the scammers where they're then saying, all right,

384
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:28.599
we'll find I'm going to send you this money. It's

385
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:30.039
going to go to this and then I need you

386
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:32.759
to go send it over here. Right, So the money

387
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:37.920
so exactly right and even even physical right like we've

388
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.119
heard that time and time again and like, hey, there's

389
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:43.160
a package coming, right, you're gonna you're gonna pick it up,

390
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:44.799
and then you're going to deliver it to this place,

391
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:50.960
and they become not only a victim, but then another, uh,

392
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.079
you know, part of the part of the scam itself

393
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:54.839
against against others.

394
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.839
Right, because that that's illegal. Right.

395
00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.640
And in I think Brian on one of his last

396
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.440
episodes he did, he had Martin, who's a retired FBI

397
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:06.960
agent on and they talked about money mules and how

398
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.400
how a lot of the older adults are victims in

399
00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:15.720
the money mule because they think they're just doing someone

400
00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:19.880
a favor, you know, being nice to them, when in essence,

401
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:23.960
they're now entwined in this illegal activity and they don't

402
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:28.319
know it until law enforcement comes to their door and says, listen,

403
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:29.240
this is illegal.

404
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.359
You need to stop, right.

405
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:37.200
And yep, absolutely absolutely ye, And it's yeah, it's a

406
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:38.319
challenging situation.

407
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:39.480
And I guess to.

408
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:45.559
The path that we followed with him got to the

409
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.680
point where, you know, maybe a year or so afterwards,

410
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.680
after the this kind of can continued, we helped to

411
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:54.960
save the house the first time and got to the

412
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.680
point where it happened again where the bills were being paid.

413
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.119
Hey, I'm going to lose my home.

414
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.319
And and and and that's where you have to make

415
00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.599
a really difficult decision to say, we're gonna treat this

416
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:11.680
like a drug addict, right, like we we love you,

417
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:13.559
we can help you, we can support you, but like

418
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.519
not under the same constraints that we're operating in because

419
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.279
we're just you know, we're repeating the same the same

420
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.319
cycle and so in and ultimately with that situation, he

421
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:28.480
did end up, you know, just losing everything, right, So

422
00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:32.480
to this to this to this day, and that he's

423
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:36.039
you know, safe and around. There's still people in this

424
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.279
community that are helping him. But it's it's still still

425
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.759
going on to this to this day.

426
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:44.960
Oh he's still engaging and.

427
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:47.079
M hm yeah, yep.

428
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:49.920
And so yeah, and it's it's it's challenging because I

429
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.359
think it just has to get treated like a like

430
00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:56.599
a mental mental illness. Folks need to be able to

431
00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.839
get you know, intensive behavioral FA therapy to be able

432
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:04.000
to realize and and again going back to like what

433
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:08.079
I said of you know, finding ros and coming on

434
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.640
the board here and being able to help with the

435
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:14.680
mission is because there's a real lack of resources. Right

436
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.160
when something like this, especially someone someone like myself who's

437
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.440
been in cybersecurity and you know, seeing these you know,

438
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:27.759
various scams and and attacks on a on a daily basis,

439
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:30.240
and then to just kind of feel helpless.

440
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.640
You're like, what do you what do you do? How

441
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:33.559
do you help this person?

442
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:35.559
And and and try to look at it from a

443
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:39.880
you know, logical problem solving perspective, and it has to

444
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:45.000
be attacked with a you know, behavior of therapy, empathetic

445
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.440
approach to be able to address it, right, because it's

446
00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:51.920
it's it's it's not a you know, there's no amount

447
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.440
of you know, technical controls that you can put on

448
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.599
your your life. Right, everyone's got the bank makes you

449
00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:02.000
put multi factor authentication to log into your accounts, the

450
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:07.039
you know everyone, lots of people use password managers, right,

451
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:11.400
people don't use the same passwords. But again, it's it's

452
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:15.319
not someone that's breaking into your house and you know,

453
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.559
smashing a window and then coming in and stealing all

454
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:18.160
your things.

455
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:23.079
It's you opening your door, welcoming and welcoming someone in. Exactly.

456
00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:27.799
You are willingly giving him this exactly. Yeah, and that.

457
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.119
Makes it you know, I've I've read a lot of

458
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.599
stories where the victims are like, you know, why didn't

459
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.240
the bank stop this, or they've trying to go back

460
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:39.519
to the bank to get reimbursed or get their money back,

461
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:42.640
and it's like they can't because.

462
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:45.359
You willingly gave this money away.

463
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:50.720
Yes, you were under and I'm not a psychologist Martine

464
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:54.319
would know the correct term, but maybe emotional distress or

465
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:58.680
something like that. But at the time, right it, We've

466
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:02.680
asked you all these questions, you gave us answers as

467
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:04.799
to what you were doing with the money, and in

468
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:09.480
the end, it's your money, right and unless you have

469
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:15.559
somebody has power of attorney, you know, or someone's on

470
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:17.920
the account with you, or I mean, I don't know

471
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:21.039
what all banks, I think their hands are tied to

472
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:25.799
a certain extent. There's probably more things that can get

473
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.000
implemented in the future that would make it more of

474
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:33.240
a deterrent. But like you said, it's at the end

475
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.240
of the day, if it's it's the person's money, and

476
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.720
if they want to get it out and they're going

477
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:43.039
to lie with some excuse, then they're going to get

478
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.759
the money to do with it as they please. Rights

479
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:53.240
It's really difficult and that's why getting you know, so

480
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:55.839
like what we tell people with Rose when I'm in

481
00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:59.160
these presentations, our goal is to get you not to

482
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:02.039
go to the bank, not to go to the ATM machine,

483
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.400
not to go to the store to buy the gift cards,

484
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.319
because once you do that, you're already in that emotional

485
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.880
state and you're just going to lie in order to

486
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:14.599
get the money to do what you need to do,

487
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:17.599
to get somebody out of trouble, to get your prize,

488
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:23.200
to help get your girlfriend or boyfriend or you know,

489
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:27.039
whoever it is. And so that's why I think what

490
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:30.519
we do is so integral. It's to get people to

491
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:35.720
understand one that these scammers are out there and the

492
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:39.079
world is so much different now than it was back

493
00:27:39.079 --> 00:27:41.519
in the seventies and eighties, and you lifted up your

494
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.079
cell phone before you know, we tell people, listen, this

495
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.640
is not just a phone. This is connected to the internet.

496
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.160
It's a mobile computer, and you have to treat it

497
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:55.680
as such, you know, with the antivirus, antimolware, and you

498
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:59.839
have to know that your numbers out there. It's out there.

499
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:03.079
People scammers know your phone number, and they're very good

500
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:03.759
at what they do.

501
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:06.440
And so engaging with them.

502
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:10.880
You have a short window to stop it before you are,

503
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.799
in essence, sucked in and you're doing exactly what they want.

504
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.640
So and social engineering, I don't know if we talked

505
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.799
about that. That's exactly what you were talking about, was

506
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:27.319
the emotional exploitation and the social engineering. And you said,

507
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:32.799
it's it's not a technical issue. It's a human. It's

508
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:38.000
a human and that's the social engineering part of it, which.

509
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:38.920
Is so difficult.

510
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:41.519
And you've lived through it and if it started back

511
00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:45.079
around COVID, you've been going through this for over five years.

512
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:47.599
Yeah, yeah, And I think.

513
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:51.519
And as you were saying, this is kind of starting

514
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:54.200
to think about it, and is anyone else out there

515
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:58.480
that's dealing with this or or you know, going through

516
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.319
with a loved one. There's a really good book called

517
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:05.039
The Power of the Habit, and it really talks about

518
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.119
the habits that we that we have and and the

519
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.640
processes that we follow to keep and maintain.

520
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.599
Good habits, bad habits, whatever it may be.

521
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:18.640
But a key thing with it, and I think about

522
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.680
this with if anyone's going through a scam, is.

523
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:25.720
That there's a trigger, you know, a ritual and.

524
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:27.920
Then a payoff, right, and so when you think about

525
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:32.000
these these scams, that that trigger is is constantly going off, right.

526
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:33.880
It's it's a trigger of saying.

527
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.079
Hey, I need, you know, just twenty more bucks and

528
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:39.960
we'll release the funds and then you'll get it right,

529
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.559
and then you there's that ritual of of you know,

530
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:44.640
either going and getting the money or getting the gift

531
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.000
card or whatever it is, and then sending it off.

532
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:50.160
And the scary part is that that.

533
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:54.359
Payoff is is the hopefulness, right, is the payoff is

534
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:57.559
the is almost part of that ritual of like, oh, gosh,

535
00:29:57.839 --> 00:29:58.640
I did it.

536
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:01.079
I'm gonna you know, I'm going to get to meet

537
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:01.599
my loved one.

538
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:05.400
Now I'm gonna I'm going to get this large inheritance,

539
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:08.759
this house is going to be mine, right, and then

540
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.319
the cycle repeats itself, right. And so I think that's

541
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.359
something that they've really really keyed in on, maybeing the

542
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:19.680
scammeras of like just that psychological loop of just you know,

543
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.720
the human condition of a habit of saying, you know,

544
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:26.559
trigger ritual payoff and then you know the scam victims

545
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:29.200
are in this perpetual hamster hamster wheel.

546
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.960
Wow, that's just and like you said, earlier. You know,

547
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.680
I think we've I've often said scammers that they want

548
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.799
one thing. They want all your money, right, they want

549
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.799
all your money. And then you know, once they've gotten

550
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:48.559
all your money, they still will use you in an

551
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:52.640
illegal you know, money mule, or they're going to steal

552
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:57.000
your identity to get more money. And you know, I've

553
00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:59.880
I've heard from some people in the presentations. You know,

554
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.599
they're like, well, I don't have any money to give,

555
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.640
and so they think they're safe, and it's like, you're

556
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:05.240
not safe.

557
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:06.119
I said.

558
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.160
They can steal your identity and get all this money,

559
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:13.000
and then you're left to clean the mess up, you know.

560
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.960
And if you're fine cleaning a mess up like that

561
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:18.440
and having to go through all that, then you know,

562
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:21.240
more power to you. I'm not I had I think

563
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:23.680
you remember I had my identity stolen a year ago

564
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:25.119
with the.

565
00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:26.359
Tax return and.

566
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.039
It was frustrating, right because you're on hold with the

567
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:34.759
IRS for two hours, and right, you have nobody plans

568
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.799
two hours in their day to be calling the irs. Right,

569
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:43.319
that's just not in your day. But yeah, there's there's

570
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.359
a lot of different things that they can do. And

571
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:52.720
then at some point, you know, sometimes the victims then realize,

572
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:56.279
oh my gosh, you know, something just snaps in there

573
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:58.480
and gets them out of that emotional state and they're

574
00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:02.519
thinking rationally and they realize it's a scam. The psychological

575
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:10.880
effects it now it's it's all over again, right, and

576
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.920
you know it's just oh my gosh, it's I don't know.

577
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:22.759
It's That's why I'm like, everybody needs this preventative education, right,

578
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:25.519
It's that they need to under They don't have to

579
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:29.599
understand every single scam because you know, we would always

580
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.359
be behind the eight ball because they're always it's so

581
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:35.440
lucrative for the scammers. They are constantly coming up with

582
00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:38.920
new ways to exploit people and take your money. But

583
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:41.920
I think that anatomy of a scam we did was

584
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:46.200
was phenomenal, right, and people understand the contact part of it.

585
00:32:46.759 --> 00:32:48.759
They can understand all three parts of it. But if

586
00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:51.200
they can cut it off, cut it off at the contact,

587
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:56.880
they are going to just have such a healthy, more fulfilling,

588
00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:05.519
you know life. Yeah, it's uh, but getting people it's

589
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:10.319
it's one thing said, but getting people to understand why

590
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:16.920
this is needed is difficult because I hear, you know, oh, well,

591
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.960
my grandparents or my parents. They still have their cognitive

592
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.720
you know abilities. They're fine or they're really smart. You know,

593
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:25.920
they're not going to fall victim. And I don't mean

594
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:27.720
to be crass, but I'm like, until they do.

595
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.440
Yeah, because they're shure, and it's yeah, and it's it's

596
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.119
only going to get more challenging for for all of us,

597
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:35.160
right because.

598
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.720
Right with artificial intelligence, it's.

599
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:38.480
Exactly where I'm going with it.

600
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:41.559
Right, Yeah, with the rise of artificial intelligence, in the

601
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:45.480
rise of the use of AI, and something is simple

602
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:47.480
like fishing, right, and you think, oh, yeah, it'll just

603
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:50.039
it'll send more you can maybe stammers can send more

604
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.599
phishing emails. Maybe scammers can send better phishing emails. But

605
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.960
when you think about the rise of cybercrime and data breaches,

606
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:04.240
you you know, compare that with you know, add that

607
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.880
with with the use of AI, and you think, like,

608
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:12.480
you know, if if if you're inbox were to be breached, right,

609
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:17.079
all of your send emails contain your voice, your tone,

610
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:20.760
how you communicate, all of that can be taken and

611
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.440
put into an AI model and we can have a

612
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:26.960
joy spot, right, and then that that joy spot can

613
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:30.800
write any phishing email in your voice, in your tone

614
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:33.360
just as good as you could, right, And and that's

615
00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:35.800
that's that's the kind of things that that are that

616
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:39.800
are concerning, is that because we all laugh at the

617
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:44.320
past fishing emails where things are misspelled and you know,

618
00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:45.920
the tone is wrong, and maybe you can tell that

619
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:48.559
maybe English isn't the first language, or there's you know,

620
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:52.840
just little those little nuanced things. AI completely changes all

621
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:55.719
of that, right, Like there's there's all of that goes

622
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:56.280
all of.

623
00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:56.880
That goes away.

624
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:00.519
Those little you know, little breadcomb trails that maybe you're

625
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:02.559
not talking to the same right person that you're talking to,

626
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:05.480
completely go away. It's the same thing with videos, right,

627
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.679
Like you think about a like a legacy romance scam

628
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.440
where you know, you know you're.

629
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:13.440
Dealing it would never want to come on.

630
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:18.239
Video exactly right, And all of that is sort of

631
00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:21.920
negated now, right. And that's that's the that's this that's

632
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:23.559
the one of the scariest things about it. And I

633
00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:25.760
think it just kind of goes back to what you

634
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:30.360
were saying, is that prevention awareness is it's it's one

635
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.840
of those things where in an upfront investment and prevention

636
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.599
and awareness is better than any cure, right because once

637
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.960
the act has occurred, and the scam is already active,

638
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.760
it's going to be infinitely harder to rectify that situation.

639
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:52.920
Right, right, And you know it's I think, uh, I

640
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.719
don't know. I think there's a lot of people that

641
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:59.559
in the in they're subconscious, they think, well, that'll never

642
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:04.199
happen to me, or they if they're you know, at

643
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:08.079
an independent living you know, community, they're like, oh, well,

644
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:09.840
that'll never happen to our residence.

645
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:12.719
It's like it probably already has.

646
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:16.280
And if you're thinking has great, And if you're thinking

647
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:20.079
that'll never happen to me, you're now one of the

648
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:22.960
more vulnerable ones. Because you're going into it thinking it

649
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:26.480
will never happen, you are now more at risk to

650
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:30.239
falling victim. I mean, I had a friend of mine

651
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.320
who is one of those Google experts, right, never thought

652
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:36.880
he'd fall victim to a scan. He fell victim and

653
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.400
lost a couple hundred dollars. But he was like, I

654
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:42.559
never he goes, I'm on the computer twenty four to seven,

655
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:45.400
I do this Google right, And I'm like, you're human.

656
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:49.039
You were excited to do the survey because you thought

657
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.000
you were going to get this prize, and you wanted

658
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.239
that prize. It was something you were going to go

659
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.800
buy anyways, and now you're getting it at eighty percent off,

660
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:58.679
So you're not even thinking, well, this doesn't make sense.

661
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:03.159
This is too good to be true, right Yeah.

662
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:04.960
And that's that's the age old adage, right if it's

663
00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:07.760
if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

664
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:11.639
And I think, yeah, I think one of the things

665
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:14.000
that maybe you could have done a better job with,

666
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:15.960
or anyone could do a better job with, is just

667
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:21.320
you know, just enforcing the thought of like a trusted contact,

668
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:26.719
right like if someone is reaching out to you, you know, blindly,

669
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.440
right Like, it's the same thing with with with with children,

670
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:33.559
right Like, there's a ton of really really good controls

671
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:36.760
that Apple and Android put in place to support you know,

672
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:37.760
trusted contacts.

673
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:38.840
Right So when you set.

674
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:43.400
Up a you know, a phone, watch, iPad whatever for

675
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:45.599
for a child, you can set up the concept of

676
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:48.840
trusted contacts where in order for someone to be able

677
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.639
to communicate with that with that with that miner, they

678
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:54.400
have to be authorized, that has to go through an

679
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.559
approval process, that has to be an email or phone

680
00:37:56.639 --> 00:38:00.639
number that the parental guardian says, yep, absolutely, you can

681
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:04.199
this is you know, Billy or Susie's phone number or

682
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:06.880
their email and then you put him in this authorized

683
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:11.199
contact and anyone else just gets deny listed. And that's

684
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:14.360
and that's something that as a general concept that you

685
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:17.320
everyone should think about. It's like if you you know,

686
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:22.960
get a you know, text message or social media message

687
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.679
that you know, just not going to respond to that, right,

688
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:28.039
most people shouldn't.

689
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:29.719
Right right?

690
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:36.159
Wow, Wow, that's uh. I was just thinking back to

691
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:38.400
what you were talking that you're that your father in

692
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:43.159
law is still as far as you know, involved in it,

693
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:49.480
but has lost his home, Thank goodness. He has people friends, church,

694
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:53.360
friends where he lives that are helping him and that

695
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:55.960
you guys have contact with so you can keep tabs

696
00:38:55.960 --> 00:39:01.199
on what's going on. But wow, well, you know it's

697
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:04.320
you know, I'm sitting here thinking, well, you know, what,

698
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:07.920
is there just some way to say something that's already

699
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:11.079
been said that maybe we'll, for lack of a better term,

700
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:12.119
snap them out of it?

701
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:13.239
Right?

702
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:16.159
Yeah, that's tough.

703
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:21.559
Yeah, yeah, and it takes. Yeah, it's uh, it can

704
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:23.639
can be really tough. And I think the other piece

705
00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:27.880
is that it takes to your point you you often

706
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.760
ask yourself that same thing as like what what can

707
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:32.519
I do? Differently, what can I do to snap them

708
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:34.800
out of it? And I think that's that's another piece

709
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:38.519
that it takes a toll on the loved ones that

710
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:42.559
are that are involved because they think constantly like what

711
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:43.599
can I do to stop this?

712
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:45.679
What can I do? What could I have done more?

713
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:48.159
And you end up in this kind of self shame,

714
00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:53.440
self blaming cycle where in all reality, like it depends

715
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:55.079
on where they are in the in the state of

716
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:57.440
the scam, but like there's not a whole lot that

717
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.000
you you could have done, because again it's it's exactly

718
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:05.480
like a drug addict, right is that you know, just

719
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.320
like you can't you know, they say you can't get

720
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:10.639
sober for for other people, or you can't you know,

721
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:15.239
stop to drugs for people for yourself exactly. And I

722
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:19.039
think that's the that's the same mindset and methodology that

723
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:21.519
that folks need to think about with with scams.

724
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:21.880
And so.

725
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:26.159
You know, it still at the same time being supportive

726
00:40:26.199 --> 00:40:30.400
and helpful and you know, being there emotionally for someone

727
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:33.280
and caring for them, but at the same.

728
00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:36.199
Time, there's no amount of reason or.

729
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:40.840
Logic that can can get get through that, get through

730
00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:41.360
that barrier.

731
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:45.039
And I think that's difficult for some people. It puts

732
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:49.639
them into They might start leading with empathy, but then

733
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:54.159
I think they are frustration comes in and you have

734
00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:57.880
to be very careful with that because you're thinking reasonably

735
00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:58.599
and logically.

736
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:03.119
They're not right there. They they've been.

737
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:09.920
They've been brainwashed right to think a certain way. And this,

738
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:14.480
the scammer that they're dealing with, like doctor Doctor Dove said,

739
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:18.920
is a real person, and to them, it's one of

740
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:23.119
their trusted people, right, just like a family member might

741
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:25.480
be a trusted person, just like a good friend might

742
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:29.800
be a trusted person. The scammer is one of their

743
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:34.519
trusted people. And although I hate to see, you know,

744
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:40.199
families have a rift between them, but I can I

745
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:44.320
can also see where where someone can get really frustrated

746
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:45.639
with it.

747
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:46.679
Yeah.

748
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:51.519
Yeah, and then that's a totally normal feeling to have

749
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:54.760
with it, because it is incredibly frustrating, right because we

750
00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:58.119
go back to the you know, the logic and reason

751
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:00.480
of it, and and there there there's no logic reasons.

752
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:04.639
Sometimes it's it's it's that trusted person, and that can

753
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:07.800
be it can be devastating to a family right, because

754
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.599
you see it, see a loved one, and you think, like,

755
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:15.000
you know, they're trusting this you know, random person on

756
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:18.480
telegram over over me, right, And that can be like

757
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:21.800
emotionally devastating and have really deep impacts for the rest

758
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:24.159
of the rest of the family. And everyone deals with

759
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:26.880
that differently, but it can be really emotionally challenging to

760
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:31.159
see someone going through that. And then because you, like

761
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:33.119
I said before, you start to kind of blame yourself

762
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:35.079
and you get concerned that, you know, what could I

763
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:37.760
have I done more? Why does this you know, why

764
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:41.000
is this love one believing someone else over me? And

765
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:44.880
it really goes back to the you know this this

766
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:48.360
phone is with them constantly and like I said, going

767
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:51.079
back to when we were out there with them, just

768
00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:54.400
the amount of you know, once once you're in that

769
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:57.840
that cycle for for scammers and they have a you know,

770
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:02.280
a you know, victim on the on the line, they're

771
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.039
going to do everything too absolutely to keep to keep

772
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:06.159
them engaged. Right.

773
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:10.559
It's you know, it's it's strong, strong calls to action,

774
00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:11.480
strong hooks.

775
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:18.960
Like it's like I said, spone was was buzzing constantly, constantly, constantly.

776
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.840
Right, They keep that constant contact that if they're not texting,

777
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:27.360
they're calling, they're on like Telegram, WhatsApp, because those are

778
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:31.400
I know WhatsApp is encrypted. I'm assuming Telegram is as well.

779
00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:35.639
Those are those encrypted apps, which you know, part of

780
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:39.599
our presentation is is if you're sending personal if that's

781
00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:43.239
the only way that you're sending personal information, you know

782
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.760
those apps are encrypted right to be able to use those.

783
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:50.760
But then again, just like they're just like these these

784
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:54.880
technologies out there for good for everybody, and artificial intelligence

785
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.679
was brought out for good, right, and it's available to

786
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:02.239
scammers and they doesn't take them long, but they figure

787
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:05.159
out how to use it to their advantage. It's I

788
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:08.119
think Bill had had something a year or so ago,

789
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:12.519
a slide that actually showed that cyber crime was like

790
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:17.960
the third when when they list the industries that make

791
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:20.519
the most money in the year, cyber crime was like

792
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:21.119
number three.

793
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:24.159
Mm hm oh yeah, you know, it makes makes total

794
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:27.199
total sense and yeah, yeah, I mean I think I

795
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:29.199
think that's the other thing when you when you have

796
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:32.920
these conversations with loved ones and you think, you know,

797
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:34.960
what are the who am I communicating with and and

798
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:39.880
what platforms? Right, because same thing Facebook Messengers is end

799
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:43.320
to end encrypted, but then it comes down to who

800
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.920
are you engaging with, how did they come into contact

801
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:49.159
with you? And then why are you engaging with them? Right,

802
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:53.719
there's all of these different you know, encrypted messaging apps

803
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.480
and some some are you know, they yes, they serve

804
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:01.400
a very valid purpose, right. End end encryption is super

805
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:05.480
important for protecting the confidentiality and privacy of messages being

806
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:08.559
sent from one person to to another and then doesn't

807
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:13.000
let the organization in the middle read or if it's intercepted. Right,

808
00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:16.719
I think that plays a really really valid role. But

809
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:19.039
there's there's bad things that happen on these platforms. There's

810
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:23.760
reasons why criminals and cyber criminals and other types of

811
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:28.079
criminals navigate to those those types of platforms because you know,

812
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:33.119
there's little social moderation that that happens, little account validation

813
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:37.280
that happens, and so yeah, if you uh, you know,

814
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:39.239
get on that platform, you can you can be anyone.

815
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:42.280
It's the same thing conversation I have with with my

816
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:45.800
kids is that on online you can be anyone.

817
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:46.079
Right.

818
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:49.039
I think that's the conversation that has to start start early,

819
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:52.079
because you know, it's it's a it's a problem that

820
00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:56.280
plagues you know, preteens and teens that are you know,

821
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:58.880
getting their devices for the first time, and then that

822
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.920
continues throughout their entire entire life cycle. And so that

823
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:04.519
I think that'll be one of the really interesting things

824
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.960
to see happen is this current generation of one of

825
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:10.519
the first generations that has grown up kind of like

826
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:14.360
a digital and AI native generation that's that's growing up

827
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:19.119
of how the scammers were will evolve over time because

828
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:21.400
crime crime is never going to go away, It's just

829
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:22.480
going to continue to happen.

830
00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:24.960
It's just you know, how we.

831
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:29.000
You know, increase that awareness and learn and grow with

832
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:32.960
that to get an understanding of how this this next

833
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:35.159
generation is going to is going to grow up with it.

834
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:39.199
Yeah, yeah, it's wow.

835
00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:43.119
It's uh yeah, I think back, you know, like I

836
00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:46.840
said too, when I grew up in man totally different world,

837
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:51.960
totally different. I was watching a Facebook real last night

838
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:55.079
and there was some lady on there talking about she

839
00:46:55.239 --> 00:46:58.000
was like, during the day, we were not allowed inside

840
00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:01.280
the house. We had to be outside, and companies made

841
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:05.440
ads to remind parents they had kids that were outside, right,

842
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:09.159
And it was just like it was like, yeah, because

843
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:12.840
you know, some people didn't have a TV, right, other

844
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:15.480
people had TVs, but they were off all the time.

845
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.000
It was like, go outside, go outside and play, right.

846
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.639
But back then we didn't have to worry about, you know,

847
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:27.679
someone coming along and snatching us. It just didn't happen, right,

848
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:31.079
I mean it happened, but it was so rare that

849
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:36.239
it happened. You just didn't have to worry about those things.

850
00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:40.480
And now with all of the technology, like you said,

851
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:46.360
everybody from whenever, whenever they get a phone, right, they're

852
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:47.519
on it constantly.

853
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:52.400
Yeah, right, and.

854
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.199
They can be they can be whoever they want, and

855
00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:56.519
whoever they're talking to can be whoever they want.

856
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.039
A lot of people.

857
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:02.119
Hide behind social media, texting, all of that stuff.

858
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:07.079
Yeah, exactly. And I think that's that's the.

859
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:13.920
That's the the expansion of the remal possibilities, right, because

860
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:19.519
when you think about you know, going outside, right, Like,

861
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:21.159
and I think about this in this conversation I have

862
00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:24.960
with my kids all the time. It's like, there's much

863
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:28.679
more risk in the Internet and with with you know,

864
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:34.800
an unmonitored, uncontrolled internet than the physical proximity, I think, right,

865
00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:39.960
because you can control physical proximity, there's less people uncontrolled,

866
00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:45.119
unmonitored Internet access at any any age is significantly you

867
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:48.599
you widen your you know, you know, who can take

868
00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:51.960
advantage of you or who can contact you becomes you know,

869
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:55.400
the entire world, right versus those that are you know,

870
00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:56.719
in physical proximity.

871
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:59.079
And that's that becomes much much more dangerous.

872
00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:01.079
And also because like to your exact point, is that

873
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:03.960
it could be anyone, right, It's that is the that

874
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:06.840
is the key recurring theme across all of these scams

875
00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:11.360
is that someone pretending that they're that they're not right.

876
00:49:11.480 --> 00:49:12.440
Yeah, I mean it's.

877
00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:17.920
You lose a lot more control online and you can't

878
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:21.880
control what the other person is doing saying whatever. The

879
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:26.719
only thing you can control is your action or reaction

880
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:31.719
or lack thereof. Right, you just say, I'm not responding

881
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:35.119
to this, right. I constantly get text messages from a

882
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:40.639
random number with just a very innocent text that I

883
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:44.159
would normally years ago respond to with sorry, you have

884
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:48.320
the wrong number, and then they respond with something to

885
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:51.039
get you into a conversation. A friend of mine told

886
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:54.840
me recently they responded like wrong number, and then they

887
00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:58.480
responded back, and after a couple times responding back and

888
00:49:58.519 --> 00:50:02.800
forth in conversation and my friend realized, wait a minute,

889
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:05.199
what am I doing. I don't know this person, and

890
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:09.079
then cut it off. But that's how a lot of

891
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:13.760
times it started is just these random right messages, and

892
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:18.880
and your control is yourself. You're either in action, action

893
00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:19.719
or reaction.

894
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:24.320
Yep, yeah, absolutely, And yeah, I mean I think, like,

895
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:27.000
don't get me wrong, I love all of those you know,

896
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:31.079
scammer wasting time videos that I see. And you know,

897
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.000
I think there's there's some folks that do it really

898
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:37.639
really well. I think you're average person that you know,

899
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:40.320
it's it's it's just a validation, right, you pick up

900
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:43.360
that phone, you respond to that text message. You know,

901
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:45.400
it's just a validation that Yep, this is an this

902
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:48.119
is a this is a this is the target, right, Like,

903
00:50:48.199 --> 00:50:49.840
this is a phone that works with the person that

904
00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:53.039
picks up. And then you just be you know, you

905
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:56.280
you go on another another list for you know, because

906
00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:59.719
if it's if it's romance, yeah, not romance, it's inheritance.

907
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:02.599
If it's not inheritance, it's I support, right, So you

908
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:04.880
just kind of go down that that iterate that list.

909
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:07.719
But yeah, that's the thing that's like, yeah, like I said,

910
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:09.840
Don't get me wrong, I love all of those videos. I

911
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:11.960
think I think they're good. I think there's some folks

912
00:51:11.960 --> 00:51:16.239
out there on YouTube that make really great content specifically

913
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:20.719
around that. But I think your average person that uh,

914
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:23.239
you know, it's better to like just like I said

915
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:25.159
with with you know, setting up you know, a phone

916
00:51:25.159 --> 00:51:28.639
for your kids is setting up a trusted context list

917
00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:32.559
that just denial lists everyone that that you haven't haven't approved. Right,

918
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:36.639
that's the you know, the model that many companies have

919
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.400
gone to. Right, it's just a zero trust mindset and

920
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:43.039
methodology of deploying technology that just you know, you assume,

921
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:46.400
assume breach, you assume scam, right, Like, you just build

922
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.079
your life in this moddle of of you know, this

923
00:51:49.119 --> 00:51:51.079
is not a trusted contact. I don't know this person,

924
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:54.880
you know, just filter that, filter that out of my life.

925
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:57.280
Like I think that's that's one of the mindsets that

926
00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:58.320
we just have to adapt to.

927
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:01.239
And that's that's all part of the healthy skepticism, Right.

928
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:04.039
You don't have to then get farther into it and

929
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:07.199
start asking, you know, then going back and verifying and

930
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:10.280
all of that. You're just like, Nope, don't know this person,

931
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:13.239
zero trust. Get you know, get rid of it. And

932
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:15.880
if you, like you said, you you get on a list,

933
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:18.840
you start responding, you get you get on a list

934
00:52:19.719 --> 00:52:22.440
that you're it's it's a valid phone number, somebody will

935
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:24.239
answer or respond back to you.

936
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.519
And scammers are so good.

937
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:29.159
You might not fall for the romance one or the inheritance,

938
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:32.239
but guess what, you fell victim to the it support.

939
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:33.360
They are just going to keep.

940
00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:37.840
Hounding you and hounding you and hounding you and exactly,

941
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:41.000
and they're going to get you at a time where

942
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:43.920
you're not thinking clearly and you're going to click, You're

943
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:45.800
going to call a number, and.

944
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:49.880
You're just knee deep into the scam by that point.

945
00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:51.000
Mm hmmm.

946
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:52.960
Yeah. And I think that's I think you hit on

947
00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:55.000
a really good one there, that that folks should also

948
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:56.800
be aware of if they're talking with their loved ones

949
00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:59.400
or or even for themselves. It's like, if there's that

950
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:05.480
strong call to action with that immediacy, that that should

951
00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:07.800
be a red flag, right, that should always be a

952
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:09.880
red flag for for anything. If they're saying, hey, I

953
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:11.280
have you on the phone right now, You've got to

954
00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:14.800
do this this thing right now, that that is absolutely

955
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:18.639
absolutely a red flag and so you see this with

956
00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:21.719
then we talked about the use of AI and voice

957
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:24.320
modulators and videos and those things, and and then that

958
00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:26.480
will continue to get worse, right, And you hear about

959
00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:32.440
these these horror stories of hey, you know the kidnapping scams, right, like, hey,

960
00:53:33.719 --> 00:53:36.239
you hear you know a voice that sort of sounds

961
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:38.039
similar to a loved one or or whatever it is.

962
00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:40.840
And there's that strong I just like the loved one,

963
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:42.760
right exactly.

964
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:45.519
And so the use of AI is going to continue

965
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:50.760
to propagate that and advance advance that. But understanding that

966
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:53.960
strong call to action is a huge, huge red flag.

967
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:58.159
Yeah, yeah, well I was just looking at the time.

968
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:00.960
We are just a couple of minutes before one is

969
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:02.039
going to get in the chat and go.

970
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:03.119
You need to wrap it up.

971
00:54:05.239 --> 00:54:09.679
So thanks Erin for coming on and sharing your story.

972
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:13.159
And I'm going to say some prayers and hope that

973
00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:18.119
your father in law is able to realize the scam

974
00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:22.079
and and get his life back on track.

975
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:24.440
And in a good way.

976
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:27.079
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I appreciate that.

977
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:29.199
And yeah, for anyone out there listening, just yeah, talk

978
00:54:29.239 --> 00:54:32.400
to your talk to your loved ones early, early, and often. Right,

979
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:36.480
you can start as as young as you know, your

980
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:37.840
nieces and nephews and children.

981
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:40.039
And I think, like we talked.

982
00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:43.880
About before, the whole reason I became involved with Rose

983
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.159
because as a security professional, I felt helpless and I

984
00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:50.440
didn't know where to go. And these resources and education

985
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:55.719
and awareness are are fundamental to preventing preventing this and

986
00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:58.039
so but but but we can't do it all. You

987
00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:00.880
can't do it all. We have to enable everyone to

988
00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:03.079
be able to have those tools and resources to go

989
00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:06.519
have conversations just like this one, to be able to

990
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:11.039
educate and make aware. So folks, you know, it starts

991
00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:12.280
to start to have that in the back of their

992
00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:14.880
minds as they as they go through their their normal

993
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:16.320
daily lives.

994
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:19.920
Right right, absolutely, all right, Well, thank you again, Erin,

995
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:24.920
and I'll see you in a couple of weeks at.

996
00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:29.960
The board meeting. Ye all right, thank you, Thanks by bye.

997
00:55:31.639 --> 00:55:36.159
All right everyone, Wow, that was that was quite the story.

998
00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:43.199
We hit on romance scam, inheritance, money mules, all of that,

999
00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:48.239
and so, as Aaron talked about with his his experience,

1000
00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:52.760
the best thing we can do is to continue to

1001
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:57.599
talk about scams and and understand just basic, you know,

1002
00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:02.079
basic understanding on how scams work and have that trusted contact.

1003
00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:06.079
You want to be able to have that with, especially

1004
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:11.400
on your phone. Right, as Aaron equated it to the kids, right,

1005
00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:14.920
nobody gets to be in your contact list unless they've

1006
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:18.400
been verified by your trusted contact, which for a child

1007
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:21.280
is normally going to be the parents you know, or

1008
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:25.840
their or their guardian. But having this education, this awareness

1009
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:28.880
about scams, and you don't have to know every single

1010
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:31.440
scam and how every single scam works, but having the

1011
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:34.840
awareness about scams in general, and then putting things in

1012
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:36.840
place that can help protect yourself.

1013
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:39.840
But we all have to remember that.

1014
00:56:41.480 --> 00:56:46.000
We're human and by being human, we are susceptible and

1015
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:49.280
vulnerable to falling victim to scams, and so we have

1016
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:54.800
to watch out for each other. Getting regular education on

1017
00:56:55.360 --> 00:57:00.400
scams is really the best way to keep scam pervention

1018
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:02.760
in the back of your mind. We have a lot

1019
00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:04.519
of ways that you can do that. Yet we have

1020
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:07.920
the in person program where we come out and go

1021
00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:11.599
over all of this. Get on our website and we've

1022
00:57:11.599 --> 00:57:14.400
got a tab that says schedule your presentation and have

1023
00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:17.920
us come out to talk to your group. There's also

1024
00:57:17.960 --> 00:57:21.079
our social media channels. Right now, we're still not back

1025
00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:24.400
up on Facebook. We're working on it. I'm hoping it's

1026
00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:27.079
going to be soon, but it's been about a month

1027
00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:30.880
now that we've been down. But we are on LinkedIn,

1028
00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:33.960
We're on Instagram, we're on YouTube. You can find all

1029
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:39.559
of these radio shows on YouTube. And we also have

1030
00:57:39.639 --> 00:57:44.119
the Let's Talk about Scams dot com website, but you're

1031
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:47.519
on the homepage Roseadvocacy dot Org. Scroll down to the bottom.

1032
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:50.760
We have a mailed newsletter and we have an emailed newsletter.

1033
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:53.840
Emailed newsletter, you're going to get a Tuesday Tip nine

1034
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:58.920
to fifteen. Every Tuesday morning you need to, you get

1035
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:01.519
a tip and it just helps you keep that scam

1036
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:03.079
prevention in the back.

1037
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:05.159
Of your mind. All right.

1038
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:09.039
Time is way over and so I need to go

1039
00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:11.039
and I look forward to seeing you guys next week.

1040
00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:15.480
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in

1041
00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:19.719
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio

1042
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:24.559
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.

1043
00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:28.199
So you have the power to make scam protection your

1044
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:32.000
healthy habit. And until then, feel free to reach out

1045
00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:34.599
to Joyce and Let's talk about Scams