Feb. 18, 2025
Impersonating Publisher's Clearing House - A Real Life Example
Scammers love to impersonate Publisher's Clearing House and a lot of other well known companies. This week Joyce is talking with Brian Watson, Community Outreach Specialist with R.O.S.E., who shares a real life experience of someone he met who fell...
Scammers love to impersonate Publisher's Clearing House and a lot of other well known companies. This week Joyce is talking with Brian Watson, Community Outreach Specialist with R.O.S.E., who shares a real life experience of someone he met who fell victim to this type of scam.
Tune in to learn more about how this impersonation scam works and what you can to protect yourself.
Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.
WEBVTT
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This program is designed to provide general information with regards
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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
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You should seek the services.
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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
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The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
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purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
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legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
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sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
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elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim.
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To a scam.
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Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen show for
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anyone who wants to protect themselves and their loved ones
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from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific time on kfour HD Radio,
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Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and her guests will provide
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valuable insights and practical tips on how to recognize and
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protect yourself from scams. And now here is your host,
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Joyce Petrowski.
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Welcome back everybody. This is Joyce Petrowski, founder and board
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president of ROSE Resources Outreach to safeguard the elderly. You
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can find more resources on scam protection and awareness on
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our website at Roseadvocacy dot org. You can also find
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on the homepage where at the bottom where to sign
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up for our newsletters. We do monthly newsletters, one via
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email and another one in the mail. And you can
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find the social media links right at the top of
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the page for Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube. So today
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we're going to talk about impersonation scams and how scammers
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love to personate, specifically more well known companies. And I've
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got a guest with me today, Brian Watson, who is
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going to talk about a specific experience that he learned about.
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So Brian spent twenty eight years in federal law enforcement
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investigating financial crimes as a special agent with IRS Criminal Investigation.
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He retired from government service in twenty twenty three and
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is now a community outreach specialist for ROS. Over the
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past eighteen months, he has done almost seventy fraud prevention
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presentations and forty TV, radio and podcast interviews. And Brian
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also teaches a course at the University of Arizona titled
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white Collar Crime.
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So welcome Brian.
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Thanks Joyce, great to be here, Good to see you.
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Yeah, thanks for joining me today.
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So you mentioned recently about talking to some people that
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unfortunately had fallen victims to a publisher's clearing house scam.
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So could you tell us a little bit about that.
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Yeah, it was last year. I did a broad prevention
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presentation in the town where I live and a gentleman
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came up to me afterwards and wanted to know my
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opinion on some documents he had. He said, I feel
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like I've won a sweepstakes and I've given them a
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whole bunch of money, but I haven't received it yet.
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And I said, well, let me look at your documents.
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And it claimed to be the document said he'd won
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the publisher's clearing house sweepstakes even though he didn't enter it.
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And he showed me a check with his name on it,
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you know, a picture of it. And I'm no expert at,
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you know, analyzing these documents, but it took me like
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fifteen or twenty seconds, and I looked them straight in
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the eye and I said, sir, you have been scammed.
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Do not give another penny. And then I soon found
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out he had paid three hundred thousand dollars and what
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he thought were taxes and fees for a ten million
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dollar prize. And he he just looked at me like
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a broken man, and it was it was heartbreaking for
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me to share that news with him. But he had
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gotten so excited that he'd won this huge prize. He
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actually sold the house to come up with the three
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hundred thousand dollars, and I just felt horrible for him.
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I checked it. I checked in with him a week
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or two later to see how he was doing. And
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this was a gentleman in his seventies, and he was
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planning to go back to work because losing that three
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hundred thousand just crippled him financially.
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Wow how much?
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Just out of curiosity, the check that they showed him,
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how much was it for?
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It said ten million dollars?
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Holy cow?
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Okay, well, yeah, that can get most people excited, right,
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especially when they see it in their name.
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Right, And you know, he everyone wants to win, you know,
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we all have that little spot inside us that wants
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to win a prize or get something, and and you know,
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he fell for it, and it's just devastating and you know,
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I could probably reach out to him again. I still
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have his phone number in my phone, but you know,
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part of me's afraid because you know, something like this
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has a tremendous effect on someone's mental health.
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Oh, absolutely right.
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We both have talked to doctor Martina Dove right about
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the She wrote the book on the Psychology of Fraud,
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Scams and Persuasion Techniques, I believe is the title of it,
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and she's very knowledgeable. She did her thesis on the
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psychological effects and how scammer psychologically psychologically get people basically
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roped into their fraudulent schemes and stuff like that. But then,
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like you said, it's devastating financially, right, I think a
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lot of people that's the first thing they think about, right,
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is the money that was lost. But just as important,
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if not probably more important, is the mental aspect of it.
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You know, here this gentleman was living. I'm sure he
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was retired. You said he was going to go back
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to work, and he had, you know, whatever funds he
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had in order to live in retirement the way he
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wanted to. He probably worked all of his life and
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now having to go back to work and then just
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that that mental you know, I don't want to say damage,
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but trying to think of a better word. You know,
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psychologically and mentally that you know that you that you
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fell victim to this.
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Yeah, And that's the problem of doing presentations is I
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accumulate stories because when you do a presentation or I
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do a presentation, you know, we make it a shame
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free zone. We talk about how very smart people fall
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victim to scams, and it can happen to all of us,
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happens to all ages. We just know from the numbers
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that older adults lose more. So after these presentations, people
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come up to me and share and you know, I
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appreciate them sharing their stories, and I do as much
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as I can to help them. But you know, it's tough,
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but I know it motivates me to get out there
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and do more because these these financial scams and frauds
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that we're seeing, they're just they're only getting worse before
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they get better.
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Right, right, And our whole goal right with doing these
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education and awareness and teaching people how to protect themselves,
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is to get them to recognize the scam early on
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when the contact is made, so they don't go any
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farther into it. Because the farther, the more you engage,
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and the farther you get into it, the least likely
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you're going to be able to get out of it
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without losing something, which most of the time is money
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and could be a substantial.
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Amount of money.
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So well, I want to well, you said something about
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you mentioned about you know, some of the very smartest
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people can can fall victim to scams. It's It's interesting
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because I hear a lot of people talk about they
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automatically equate, whether it's themselves or they're talking about someone
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else falling victim to a scam as being.
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Stupid and it and I get it.
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I mean I've fallen victim to a scam years ago,
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and yeah, for a little while I felt stupid, right,
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And but the thing is is that it scammers don't
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rely on intelligence and or lack thereof, and they, you know,
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a lot of times have no idea what your financial life,
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your financial means are.
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They just.
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They just blanket millions and millions of people hoping that
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a very very small like a half a percent or
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a percent are going to engage, right, And you know, I,
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I don't know, I don't say this in presentations, you know,
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and and but I do think about it, and I
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have I probably have said it to you a few times.
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Is you know, scammers don't send out IQ tests, right,
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and and want financial statements that that's that's they're not
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looking for the people at the low end of the
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i Q test and the high end of the of
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the financial statements. Right. Everybody is susceptible to be and
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will be contacted at some point. So, but I want
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to take this, this experience that you learned about from
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this gentleman, and and equate it to our anatomy of
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a scam that we create and that we use in
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the presentations, which the first part is initiating contact. So
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explain how his experience, how that started with the contact.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure his contact was by telephone. I'm
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actually familiar with this scam. When I was still with
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the federal government, there was a huge investigation into a
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publisher's clearing how scheme out of Jamaica where about ten
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defendants were charged. And I know in that particular scheme
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they primarily called people, but there were some emails as well.
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And in that case they were using lead lists that
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they purchased. These are lists that are used to make sales,
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and they only wanted people that were eighty years and
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above because in their mind they thought they had a
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better chance. This gentleman was not eighty, but he received
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the phone call and you know it was unsolicited, came
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out of the blue, just like our anatomy of a scam.
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And you know where most most scams prey on people's fear,
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this one kind of captures that greed. And I'm not
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saying this gentleman was greedy, but it's just that feeling
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that you want to win and if someone if you
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win a prize, you get excited. And when you get excited,
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you don't think real well, right exactly the compelling reason
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to act. And they get you excited. They say, do
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you want the check delivered to your house with balloons
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and a TV crew? Or do you want something quiet?
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And they'll they'll they'll just get you all excited. How
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are you going to spend the money? Where are you
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going to go? And they get you thinking positive thoughts
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about winning prizes and then when they enter the conversation
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of okay, well, you know the government's going to have
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to charge you a little bit of taxes and there's
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going to be some fees. You think, oh, okay, that's
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part of the process. Everyone has to pay taxes.
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It's and you know, he normal, right.
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It's very normal, and you know, and then eventually, you know,
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the third part of the anatomy of scam is the
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demand for payment. And like I said, that was the
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taxes and fees and you know, and then the other
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thing I love about our anatomy of a scam is
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the urgency. You know, they keep you on the phone
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and they get that immediate payment right away. They don't
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let you think about it, they don't want you to
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talk to anybody else, but they get you going. And then,
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as you just mentioned, Joyce, once you start going down
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that path and you've been and they have you for five, ten,
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twenty minutes on the phone, it's hard to end that
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phone conversation. Oh yeah, you've got you trapped. And they're
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reading from scripts that have proven to work and have
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fooled very smart people.
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Right.
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And so you mentioned, you know the word greed, that emotion.
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Right.
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I don't really like that word either, and I tell
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people I don't. I don't like the word greed, but
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that's what it, you know, that's the word. The emotion
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and and but it is it's excitement, right, it's excitement
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that you've won this luxury automobile or this large sum
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of money.
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So did they or did he mention like the fees
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that they told me had to pay.
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Was it the all at once, the three hundred thousand,
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or did they get them a couple times, because I've.
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Heard it was they did not ask for the three
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hundred thousand immediately, because you know, if they did that,
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most people would say, nah, that's that's too much money.
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They'll always, you know, start small and then add another thing,
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and then another thing, and keep going and and they'll
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just string you as long as as long as they
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have to. I mean, they'll literally take every penny you have.
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That's what I've learned about the criminals these days compared
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to twenty years ago when I first started doing fraud
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prevention for the government, is they're ruthless financial predators. These
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people will take all of your money. They will not
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move on until they've sucked your drive every dime you have.
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So no, they did not. It was a process. And
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that's why when he asked my opinion of the documents
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that he'd been provided over the internet, The first thing
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I said was, you cannot give them any more money
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because they hold that the prize out there. All we
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