Learn How Data Brokers Buy and Sell our Data

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0:48 To a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must-listen show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday at 8 a.m. Pacific Time on K4HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And now, here is your host, Joyce Petrowski. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Joyce Petrowski, founder and board president of Rose Resources Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly. Been gone for a few weeks, but I trust Brian kept you guys going and had some great content for you. go to our website at roseadvocacy.org. If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see highlighted where you can sign up for the email newsletter, or on the right side, you can sign up for our monthly mailed newsletter. When you sign up for the emailed newsletter, you're going to get our regular monthly newsletter. Every Tuesday morning at 9.15 Arizona time, you're going to get a A Tip Tuesday. And you might already know the tip. You might not already know the tip. But it's also reinforcing your scam prevention habits and your healthy skepticism, which is something that we need to do on a regular basis. We need to see it, read it, hear it, say it, all of that stuff

2:18 in order to make scam prevention a habit and your healthy skepticism a habit. We also have our social media channels on there. And we just recently started a private Facebook group called Scam Prevention Through Education. You can request to join on there, and we've got a lot of great content there as well. Let's see. We've got a guest today, David Hawkins. He was with us, gosh, it's already September, probably four months ago. We talked about some artificial intelligence and a lot of different things related to that. But he is going to, he's with a company now, Cloaked, and we're going to learn all about what they can do to help protect us. So let's welcome David.

3:08 Well, hello. Hey, Dave. I'm glad to be back. Yeah, it's nice to have you back. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing now at Cloak. Sure. So I had taken a little bit of time off like you this summer. And when I came back from that, somebody called me and said, hey, you might be a good choice for what we're looking for here to help out. And Cloaked as a company, what they do, they do something that my wife does because she's just super suspicious of everything internet. She doesn't put a Devices on her mobile phone. I mean, apps on her mobile phone. She refuses like she doesn't want anything on there. And every time she has an issue with a credit card, she rotates. She gets a new credit card constantly. And and whenever most people go out and they change their password periodically, sometimes. But she does something even worse, which is she she deletes the original password and the email as well and changes the email. Yeah. She just uses different like totally different credentials. And I thought that was kind of a smart thing to do as a person.

4:20 She's not a cybersecurity person, but she's just not a very trusting person when it comes to the Internet. Yeah. And as it turns out, that's exactly what Cloak does. So when you use the Cloak product, what you end up with is a solution that you start off. And this is for people. This is a consumer-based product. It's not a big corporate product, although I'm here to help with the corporate side of the business. But the way this works is everybody has email addresses and passwords that go with those. And everybody's got credit cards. You've got phone numbers and all of these different things. And they all end up being put on these directories that are sharing information. Every time you check that box when you sign up for a new account, you say, can we share this with our partners? And what they end up doing is they sell your data to the data brokers.

5:16 And there are a couple of products out there you may have heard of that, you know, some of what might be considered partly a competitor to Cloaked. Where they delete your stuff out there. Yes. They get you deleted from all of these different things. And then they monitor to see if it comes back up and then they delete it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's literally what we do. We start out with deleting your data that's on the data brokers. Okay. And then put you on a continuous constant re-deletion. And then the second part is they put you on every do not call list that you can get put on across the country. So that cuts down your phone span.

5:57 And we're also at this moment working on something to get those text messages to stop coming up that shouldn't come up. So all of those are the core nature of the product. But what Cloak does that is different from every other product is we let you actually have the same kind of that the hackers have in the sense that you can go in and rotate your credentials, not just the password, but the usernames, and populate that with totally different data, like fake data. And what that does is it poisons the web. So all of those companies that are taking your data, your real personal data, and sharing it, now you're starting to seed them with the fake data. data that isn't your data. You still get all of the communications. You still get all of it.

6:52 You can use your phone, use your charge card, use your email address, and that all stays private and exactly the same as normal. Like your Gmail is still your Gmail. But to them, you look like, you know, Sally Olive at some crazy domain. And it just, it gets rid of, it literally not only deletes your data, but prevents them to get back in because every time you re-sign up for. Something, your information gets out there. Right. It's gone out again. Yeah. Right. And it's, it's a never ending battle. Right. I actually just yesterday in a presentation, I had somebody ask me, how do we get our information off the internet?

7:37 And I'm like, well, you know, you can do it yourself, but you're going to have to, first of all, figure out where your information is. You're going to have to then go to the privacy policy of all these companies, find out what the procedure is to request to have your information taken off, go through that process, but then you're going to have to follow up and make sure that it's being done. And I said, but there's also companies out there that will do this for you for a subscription, right? So, but that's interesting that you guys take it a step further and you actually, I guess on the, on the, On the front end, what data brokers and what companies see is fake information, like a fake username, a fake password, but you're still using your legitimate one to log in.

8:29 Just behind the scenes, but to, to like you go to Best Buy and if Best Buy has a compromise, whatever email address and password you used could potentially now be in, in what they call them paste bins in some cases. Okay. It's just a location where all of your credential information got put. Okay. And then once it's there, It's your responsibility, unfortunately, to go delete your, you know, you need to go change your password. And changing your password is literally only half the data that those brokers have. Right. We're giving you the ability to change both. And the next time you log into Best Buy, you don't use your specific email.

9:15 You use a fake one that we generate, just like you generate a password, generate a credential and put it in. Okay, so let's say someone's using a password manager. Or with some of the older adults, they're writing it down and keeping their notebook in a safe, locked place, which we always tell them to do. So then they're actually recording in their password manager or writing down the fake credentials. So when they go to log in, again, they're using those fake credentials, right? Right. And part of what we do in order to make this easy is you could definitely do this manually yourself, right?

9:57 You could go out and create a whole bunch of new email addresses. Problem is linking the email addresses back to you so that you actually get the messages, right? So that email address will be used for the do not reply messages that they send. And what we actually have in the product is an inbox, right? And so that inbox actually receives the email and then it relays it down to your personal email, your real email. Okay. And so it creates a real inbox, a real email behind the scenes inside of our tool. And then it's like forwarding to your real address.

10:37 Okay. Exactly. So question. Question. I think I might be missing part of it here. When I said that people then use those fake credentials to log into that account. Right. And if a hat, they would use your tool. Yeah, because we actually include a password manager. To log into their accounts. So what happens, so a data broker gets access to that fake information and they're selling it. But then wouldn't Wouldn't a scammer or a bad actor, even if they had that fake information, wouldn't they be able to access someone's account?

11:20 No, because technically you're not using the fake information as a login for your personal internal stuff. So you're disconnecting your... I'm going to call it an indelible identity. There's a part of your identity that's indelible, and that is your base root email, right? That's yours. And you're going to keep that, and that's your connection to close. And then we're going to create this network of... fake credentials that you use out in the world. And the vendor, like a Best Buy, will see that fake email and the fake password. But the communications come back and get sent to your personal inbox, your real inbox.

12:04 Okay. So let's say that I go to get into my Best Buy online account. I'm still going to use whatever username and password I generated. To log into that account. The fake one. You're going to use the fake one that you generated through Cloaked. And then that entity will only have that fake connection. And what's... Let me think of... Let me explain something a little bit to help with this. So... Today, most people have what's called a one-to-many relationship. And that means I'm the one person with my one credential, and I use that same email address on every single item out there. So it's one-to-many, and many is all of the different things you subscribe to. Now, with Cloak, what we do is we move you back one step. And then do a many-to-many relationship on the front side. On the back, you still have the one-to-one connection with all of the credentials you create. But for the stuff out in the field, they actually get a one-to-one connection. So you have one specific credential that only and ever gets used with Best Buy. You have another one that gets used with Sam's and another one that gets used with Costco.

13:20 And so those become one-to-one relationships. And there's some really interesting value that comes out of this. You could give a cloaked email, phone number, credit card, all together, because we're actually a credit card company as well. Okay. So you have the virtual cards? Yes, we have a whole virtual package. So that means that there's a one-to-one relationship between your cloaked identity and this external entity. But all communications, the emails, the phone numbers, they call to this one particular number that you gave them. And it's a fake number. It's just our fake number that we generated for you. And you can set these fake credit cards in that process as well. And the cool part is if you use this for subscriptions, like say it's your Apple subscription to Apple TV, you set up Apple TV to Apple TV. Now you've got a fake email and a credit card. And once you pin it to Apple, you then have a couple of extra things you can do on our side, which is I pay a $ 20 a month subscription. I will never authorize more than $ 20 a month ever. So that means if they up their subscription, you don't just like find out a year later on your credit card statement that they went from $ 20 to $ 25. you actually would get a

14:51 message that, hey, we blocked payment this month because they jacked up their price. Or they tried to put something through that shouldn't have gone through. Okay. And our credit card blocked it. So if I'm understanding this correctly, if, and I'm going to use the Best Buy example. So let's say I have an account with Cloaked. Mm-hmm. And it's doing all the fake stuff in the background with all the different accounts that I have. But if I decide to log in to Best Buy outside of Cloaked, I would have to use my actual username and password that I have.

15:35 You wouldn't have with that particular company. The created Cloaked identity is your identity with them. So if you logged in outside of Cloaked, you would still have to use that fake identity because that's the only thing Best Buy is going to recognize. Right. And you have to realize there's going to be a difference in the type of accounts you use. So I'm a veteran. I have login.gov. That is what I call an indelible identity in the sense that you really have to use your original credential. For the government. Yes, exactly. But this is where you keeping your protected identity safe and not putting it in all of those other databases helps you because that is a credential that you absolutely cannot afford to have compromised.

16:28 Well, that's how people steal your identity. Exactly. So that background identity, who cares if Best Buy knows that, you know, my name is David. Maybe I go by, you know, Philip. Who cares? It doesn't matter. They don't really need to know. They might need to know a delivery address, but you can actually, you know how you can change your billing address and your shipping address? Right, right. You can put your shipping address as the place you want things sent to, but your billing address can be associated with that cloaked identity that has its own unique billing address specific to the credit card we helped you create. Okay.

17:11 So I can see where that helps protect your real identity. Right. But how does that. Data brokers then having... same access as they would whether you use cloaked or not. And so let's say you're using cloaked and data brokers get that information, not through cloaked, but let's say they infiltrated Best Buy systems and now they have your fake username and password and other fake information with Best Buy. They would still be able, if they sold it and stuff... Mm-hmm. A bad actor could technically still log into your account because now they have that fake.

17:55 They could log into your Best Buy account. Right. But what can they do? If you don't store your credit card on Best Buy. Got it. And you always use it. Yeah. So they wouldn't have any real information. And if they did, you could store the cloaked credit card, which, remember. First off, we vendor lock it. Yeah. And we vendor lock it. So that means this one email, this one phone number, and this one credit card can only ever be used at Best Buy. And that means they can steal it all day long unless the data broker is going to steal the information from Best Buy and then use it at Best Buy and only at Best Buy. It doesn't work. Right, right.

18:41 That's true. So, yeah, definitely protects your identity. And there's nothing that even Cloaked can do to prevent these other companies from getting breached or hacked. No, we can't. We're not stopping Best Buy. We're not at Best Buy fixing their cybersecurity. Exactly, right. So that end of it. But it really limits then what. A bad actor, they might have a fake username and password and can get into the best buy account. And they're going to plug it into their thousands of other accounts they have on their system. And nothing's going to pop up because it's a way for you to always have a different username and password with every individual account you have, which is a big problem because you know why they are one of the reasons why their companies are moving to pass keys is because they know everybody reuses passwords and And they, you know, still use password 123 and different things like that that are very easy to guess um, or to brute force into. Um, so now you, you said one other thing when you were talking about it that, um, oh gosh, what was it?

19:57 It was something about so if you get correspondence at that fake email, it's coming into cloaked and then cloaked automatically forwards it to your real address. So you see it. So privacy concern, how, how does cloaked handle all of that with actually seeing people's emails? Right. And, and what, so first off, um, it's a relay only and your, your account inside of our system, it's, It's every single individual account. Every single password is actually in its own encrypted locker. So even though it's just you might consider it a throwaway credential with with Best Buy.

20:50 that one specific username and password is locked down in its own locker, specific to that one account. And then for every other account, that's locked down. So if a hacker ever got into our systems, they're going to find billions of accounts. It's not like I can just go in and grab your information. Right, but they're going to have to get through that encryption. For every single, every single account you have. Yeah. Every, you know, you're going to have the one, your, your own personally, that's locked down to your account tied with a pass key to you. And it's also encrypted in its own locker. And then every single credential, we help you create all individual lockers. So it's extremely complicated. Exactly.

21:41 So that's why With password manager companies, there's been one that I know of, but I'm sure there's been other ones that have been hacked into, but they've never been able to get into the customer's vaults because they've not been able to get through the encryption. Right. And that's the same here. The same thing. Okay. Yeah. All right. We take it up a little bit higher because we're also segmenting it out for all of the different things you can use, like a phone number, credit card. Right. You know, text messaging, things like that. Okay. Yeah. And so it sounds like that Cloaked or anybody at Cloaked isn't really seeing the emails because it's literally coming in and transferring over into your email box. It's all done automatically through a program.

22:26 We're not storing data. We're just relaying it through. Relaying. That's what you used. Yeah. It's a relay point to take it from the fake one to the real one. Yeah. Now, there's a potential. There is an option to have it, and this is mostly for the junk stuff that you don't care about, where we can actually store. You can use it as an email system if you want to, but you certainly don't have to. 99% of the customers only do the relay, and it goes through. But there are companies that are looking at us to use us for point-to-point communication because we When I mentioned that we do a vendor lock, so Best Buy credential to Best Buy, that's locked. And any emails and any phone numbers and any credit card transactions are locked to that one vendor and for a specified amount. You can even time limit it and say turn it off after two months or three months. So that type of thing we already have, but we're also working on point to point phone numbers. So you could have a dedicated, and this is, this gets kind of complicated in a way for the average user. I don't see this happening, but for the corporate world, it's becoming more and more prevalent where I have a specific phone number that I share with my vendors. Right. And so my company and my vendors have this point to point communication where I cannot

23:59 get a call from that vendor. Let me say it another way. Nobody at the vendor can call me except the person who has that one number. And that number only works from that number that they have to me. And I can time limit it. I can block it. I can say that only one direction, phone call, that kind of thing. So the capabilities around that, This point to point thing that we're talking about, it really isolates all of the places where the hackers have been able to play because they're looking at broadcast. They're looking at so many different ways they can use one credential. Right.

24:40 And to infiltrate all the employees at the company. Exactly. So now it's much harder. Today, the biggest liability on the corporate side is tech support. Maybe you call into Comcast on tech support. If you're an employee of Comcast, and you're an executive, you know, somebody can call in and fake you, right? They can do a deep fake. And they talk to the tech support person, and that person says, I lost my laptop, and I need to get in on my tablet. Can I do that? And so that becomes a problem for tech support to be able to tell whether or not you're really the right person.

25:26 It is really you. Yeah, because what they'll end up doing if they do it, they authorize it. Tech support gives them a high level of privilege for the hacker. And we're working, by the way, on a couple of other technologies that will help with identifying deep fakes and being able to diagnose. Because if you use that phone system that we talked about, you use a fake phone, it's technically like an eSIM on your phone. And we could potentially have some AI monitoring that will allow you to know this doesn't sound right. It's not coming from the right place. There's something about the inflection, something about the cadence of the spoken word. So that's not available right now.

26:11 It's something you're working on. It's something that's being worked on. So you brought up AI. So how much in what you already have that you've explained is AI involved in this? Yeah. Yeah. So AI is used heavily to do the auto deletions because, you know, we've, we've got over a thousand data brokers that we go out and delete. So we're using AI to monitor the data brokers for you. And then obviously to delete as well. So, you know, propagating jobs out to say, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, you know, it automates the whole process. So, and there, and there are other areas, obviously spoofing, you know, Spoof analysis when somebody is trying to spoof you or deep fake you coming into a call. Those are the areas where we're going to be doing more and more with AI. Oh, wow. Okay.

27:04 All right. Interesting. Yeah, I was talking to somebody recently and it was like that we were talking about that thing, just what you mentioned about you could ask AI questions. to give you a list of where all of your, your personal information is in the companies and give me the, the company's rules to, to request deletion of my, of my data. And we do that on your behalf. It's, it's so easy now. If you don't mind, I'll share my screen and show you kind of what it looks like a little bit. Is that all right? Yeah. All right.

27:45 So let me, uh, I'm, I'm getting a little bit more into AI and using it for, you know, um, putting something in after I've written it and said, does this need to be, you know, tightened up or does this, can this be said in a better way or, or something, you. Know, can, can you see my screen or is this, um. Uh, now, yeah, it's coming up now. Now I can see it. Yeah. Just wanted to make sure this, uh, is authorized. So I've got one of those, um, Yeah, I don't want to do that. There's only so much that I can show here because of the privileges on my Mac.

28:25 Oh, okay. But basically, I've got 104 records removed since September. These are an example of some of the cloaked IDs that I've created. So I can go in and you can see this is a fake phone number. OK, you know, so and anytime I want to add something, I can go here to email and I can just generate an email and it creates this fake email. OK, and then if I go to that site and use that fake email, you know, it's all good. And same thing with the password. It's just like a password manager generated token. If it's got a username instead of using the email. You can generate a totally fake username, the whole thing. And also you could tie in your one-time passcodes. So the idea is this can replace what I'm doing is I'm replacing a portion of my password manager. I still use my password manager, but I'm using for those accounts that I want to cloak. I'm bringing them one at a time into cloaked.

29:35 So it, the one thing under, um, under the password is the one-time passcode. Is that a multi-factor code or is that, okay. I didn't know if it was that or if it was a pass key. It's that random. Like if, uh, if I go back in there. The second level of security, Yeah. The multi-factor code. When you go to Best Buy and say, I want to put multi-factor on, it gives you that little 2D barcode or whatever it is. I can't remember the name today. But it gives you that code. And once you get that, you can create the one-time passcode. And it ends up giving you a rotating number. Right. So... but it's pretty easy.

30:17 And you can see here, you've got your data removal. So it finds all of the places that are out there where you've been. So it found your stuff on white pages and 411, which is a lot of directories, personal directories, people search. Yeah. And then so all of these are, you know, removals that it's working on. You can see that it's, you know, the trend line is that I'm getting more and more removed, the deeper it goes. And then, uh, over time, uh, I'll disappear somewhat on the internet and the identity monitoring. This is exactly the same thing that you were probably used to with, uh, there's a bunch of identity monitoring services that are out there. So, um, uh, this does the same thing. You put in a couple of, uh, data points, you can put in more data points if you want to, so that you can, uh, uh, add to it, whatever you want to add. And then, um, the, the cloak pay is, this is where you actually get a credit card number and you can use it as a, uh, alternative to your regular credit card.

31:28 So it's like a virtual card. Yeah. Which is what a bank might have that is tied to your regular credit or a credit card company, whatever. It's a, it's a different number and it's tied to your account. So if that number gets compromised, you only use it for online stuff, right? It's virtual. If that number gets compromised, it doesn't affect your regular card. You can still keep your regular card and, and which is nice because how many, it's a pain in the butt, right? When your credit card gets compromised. And I use, I use our actual credit, inbox here.

32:08 So I've got a couple of messages that came in specifically. In order to come on board, I signed up and uninstalled and signed up and uninstalled. So I got some refunds on our own product that I paid for with my cloaked card, and then they refunded so that we can just keep going. But you've got the text relays, email relays, call history, and then all of this works on your cell phone. So you'll have a pop-up on your cell phone telling you, you know, spam caller from so-and-so. It just takes it out of your. Spam likely or... Exactly. And then we've even got the ability to have... If you have a personal website, I'm signing up on this side right now, but you can create... a fake website if you want to. And what you do with the fake website is it's to basically give you an at domain name for your email. So rather than saying I work for cloaked.id, which is the name of our company, I can have this fake thing that is just a, it's a real domain, but it's not real in the sense that it's not my company or my, you know, my name. So it gives you.

33:26 The email address then too, that you could write, that you could use. Interesting. You said you don't have the text stuff yet. You're working on that. No, the text messages do work. But what the idea behind the text messages is it's going to basically key off of your phone phone book, right? So anybody that's in your phone book is going to be fine. If they're not in your phone book, they're going to go to the, uh, uh, to the probably spam. Okay. Yeah. I've noticed a lot more, um, numbers that are not in my contact list that are coming up as, uh, spam likely. And like I, last Friday I called a, um, retirement community cause we were doing a presentation yesterday there.

34:21 And asked if they had an idea how many people were going to be there, you know, because I wanted to make sure I had given enough handouts to the gentleman that was doing the presentation. And she called me back on Saturday and I didn't answer it because it said spam likely. Right. And then she left a message and told me who she was. And that was actually, now I take, I was going to say that was actually a business number, but I take that back. It could have been her personal phone that she was calling me on because I would think if it was a business, it would have come up with the business name. And just to give you an idea. So on my cell phone, That's what a cloaked message would look like.

35:06 The first one was the actual phone call that came in a minute ago. Can you put that up again? Yeah. So my first number there, it's going to keep disappearing on us pretty quick because I'm not looking at it. A cloaked call guard. Okay. Right. So the cloaked call guard picks up the call. The call that... kick me off my earbuds. That was actually a legitimate call. And then, but because I didn't answer it, cloak, let me know that it was a legitimate call and it went off to voicemail. And then the one that came immediately after it was actually, well, that was actually another, they must've tried me twice, but there's anytime I get a non legitimate number, it'll tell you right off, you know, a spam call or likely spam. Okay, all right. And you can go back through your logs and see all of that, and it'll be marked cloaked if it's banned.

35:58 And that comes up in real time when the phone call's coming in? Right. Okay. Yeah, it lets you, you have the option to answer or just ignore it. You know, it's just simple, just like your normal phone operation. Right, right. Nothing earth-shattering there. So it sounds like, you know, like you said in the beginning, there's a lot of companies that do part- of what you guys do, but you've taken all of those different parts and built it into one, a single platform, a single platform. Yeah. And, and done it in a way that, you know, initially the idea is that most people are mobile heavy. So the bulk of the app is right here on your, on your phone. What I showed you a minute ago on screen was actually, um, the exact same interface as what you see on my phone here. Um, but, Let me just pop that open. There we go. And the other thing that's kind of nice with this is it actually gives you an idea of, close that. Let's see here.

37:08 There we go. So, oh, you know what? I have to read, there it goes. So it tells me, it gives me some analytics. This is again where the AI comes in. Where it tells you the level of risk that you're at. And, you know, it actually gives you a rating. How risky am I being? You know, in other words, how much am I sharing too much information that I don't need to share? It allows you to actually get a feel for that. through the system. But yeah, it's, it's primarily a mobile forward thing for end users. So for a lot of people who only use their phone, you don't need to get on a computer to do this.

37:51 You can, especially when it comes to the password manager, you might want to, you know, get a real feel for what you're doing. You can, you can do everything. I've talked to a lot of people that they don't have a computer. They use their phone. Yeah. Right. For, for everything. So that's good. Younger people are nothing but phone. Yes. Yes. So speak. So it's an app that you would download. Yes. Yeah. So then let me, so I, and this is like, we teach people with the apps on how to safely use apps. We've created a course, a 45 minute course on how to show people to safely use their apps and download safely. But one of the things we tell them is, you know, when you download an app, it's going to ask for you to grant them permissions to, could be location. It could be, um, your contacts. Um, there's another third big one that I can't, it just went out location contacts, um.

38:53 Financial, whether it stores your credit card, whether it, um, yeah. Um, has access to your, what is it? Um, Oh yeah. No, I, There's a couple like you said. Yeah. And, you know, we talk to him and we tell him, you just really have to ask yourself, well, does this app really need to know my location, right? If it's a map app, well, it's going to need to know it while you're using it. So you could say only while using, right? So, but, you know, we kind of take it a step further, especially with the contacts, right? And it's like, if you're not paying attention and you're just trying to download that app really quickly and you're just answering yes, yes, yes or confirming, then now that app has access to your contacts. They're most likely going to use that company. They'll use your contacts to be able to market their product to your contacts. What if that company gets hacked? Well, now your contacts are in the hands of a bad actor. And so, you know, is to really be careful with that. So with what you guys are doing and how you would have to recognize if the calls coming from in the content, do you guys ask for permission to the contacts? So you are able to isolate that.

40:12 We're not, we don't, that's one area. We don't actually, that's not a propagation method that we have. Okay. So basically, and here's the thing, once people get a gist of what we do, the demand has been inbound, not outbound. You probably have seen, a ton of people have probably seen the kind of weird commercials on Facebook for Cloaked. you know, there's some guy in a bathtub and it's just some creepy guy trying to call a girl. And, you know, after we, after we emailed back and forth, I did start seeing a few things come up. I don't remember. Yeah. That's, that's about the only thing we do that's outbound. Um, because generally speaking, uh, what we don't want to do is become one of those propagation points, right? So we're not going to, uh, take your information, pull in all your contacts and Now, we do have a referral thing, so you can put in a referral for someone you want.

41:13 One of the cool things is the way our pricing works. You have an individual, a couple, and a family of four, by default. Oh, that's nice. And you can add as many people as you want. So after you get to four, you can just keep adding more people to your plan. It just increases your subscription. Yeah. I mean, you're paying for it, of course, but for all of those services put together, our price from what I'm seeing is equal to what some of those individual products each charge for their service. So what would an individual plan cost per month? So, you know, I don't, I try not to get into the pricing of our product very much. But I'm going to get it for you real quick.

42:01 Well, if that's not something that you're involved in, that's not what you do. Well, it's because I'm an engineer. What I do is I shy away from pricing. So an individual is $ 9. 99. As a couple, it's $ 14. 99 a month. And then for a family, it's $ 24. 99 for four. Up to four people. Yeah. Okay. And then after that, you can add on and on. But when you compare it to some of these other services, I think LifeLock for one person is more expensive than our family plan. Yeah. And they offer the credit monitoring, the antivirus.

42:42 Right. We do all of that as well. I mean, we don't do the antivirus. No, but you do the monitoring. Right. But again, they're just doing one part. Where you have all these other. I have no doubt that the more ground we take, the more they're going to have to drop their price and get competitive. Yeah, you know, it's competition, right? It's healthy competition and supply and demand. But here's one of the key differences. A lot of those companies, none of them are going to become a credit card company. We're actually a MasterCard credit company. And we're probably going to be with other credit card vendors as well down the line. With Visa and Discover. I don't know which ones or what timing and whatnot.

43:24 That's not what you're involved in? That's like, yeah. I try and stay focused on the specific area. Right. But all of the monitoring services, at some point, it won't be a surprise to me. I know that we're working on it. that at some point when some company gets breached, you'll be given our product instead of one of those products, you know, that, that service on the backend. So I know that we're recommended by one of. The insurance companies now. And by the way, we include the insurance. So we have insurance on, on the, on your identity information being stolen.

44:06 Oh, so what was the three? Um, so yeah, we offer $ 3 million of identity protection insurance. Wow. Okay. Yeah. A lot of the others do only 1 million. 1 million or something. Yeah. If you can get one, why can't you get three? Right. You know? So yeah. And I think they're all going to kind of migrate. Everybody will migrate to the same basic picture eventually. Absolutely. Right. It's like you see one, one company doing one thing. That's your competition. Well, then you look, well, how easy or hard is it for me to adapt that? And It's a healthy competition, right? That you, yeah. And, and, you know, the free market system, we don't want to block any competition. We just want to be faster than our competition.

44:47 Yeah. And that's a, that you're right. That that's what everybody tries to do. Yeah. Right. So. Well, David, I really appreciate all this information. Absolutely. I'm going to go in and looked at cloaked and, and learn more about it. I don't have it right now, but for your next week newsletter, I'm going to do my best. I should be able to get you guys a promotional code for all your listeners. So that if anybody decides to sign up, maybe we'll give you like the first three months free or something like that. And that way, you know, you can give it a try and, Um, and then maybe, um, there are some training options on our website to learn how to use the product, but, um, maybe we could do like a, a sub video for you that you can, you don't, we don't have to do a show per se, but I'll give you a quick video for your, your, uh, folks to just say, here's how to use it.

45:41 Oh, that's nice. Yeah. We're working on, um, we just put some vetting guidelines in place. Um, we're going to have, um, an additional page on our website where, and it's going to be all senior related, right? But it's going to be companies that, that work in, in the senior industry and, and they've gone through the vetting, you know, process, the guidelines that, that we've created and, um, then they'll be able to be listed and, as a resource for somebody that comes to the website and says, hey, I want to get my information off the internet. Well, here's a resource. I need an in-home caregiver. Well, here's a resource. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, no, we'll make sure we provide.

46:23 That would be a good place for the video too. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Well, thank you, David. It's been like all summer. I was trying to think back when I started the show. I was like, has it been like four or five months since you've been on? It was like May, wasn't it? It was May. It's already September. I went on a crazy long cruise. My wife fortunately won a couple of cruises back to back. So we were on a cruise for 40 days. Oh, nice. Well, I don't know. It depends. Not everybody can be on a cruise for 40 days. Well, you can only get away with that when you're semi-retired, which I was until I got back. And when I got back, somebody said, you should come to work for us.

47:06 I'm like, this is perfect. I just came back from a vacation. Yeah. All right. All right. Well, thanks, David. And we'll keep in touch. All right. Talk soon. Take care. All right. Bye-bye now. Bye. All right, everybody. I learned a lot of information about the company Cloaked and the products that they offer and how they can help protect your identity. Check them out. We have the website in the show notes. And don't forget, go to our website at roseadvocacy.org. Social media links are at the top. We have that new private Facebook group, Scam Prevention Through Education. You're going to want to. Asked to join that group. There's a lot of great information that you'll get. Scroll down to the bottom. Sign up for our newsletters. We have an email one and a mailed one. And Brian will be back next week, and then I'll be back the following week. So stay tuned for Brian. Thank you.

48:04 Well, that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in every Tuesday at 8 a.m. Pacific time on K4HD Radio at K4HD. com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge so you have the power to make scam protection your healthy habit. And until then, feel free to reach out to Joyce and let's talk about scams.