WEBVTT
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This program is designed to provide general information with regards
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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
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the understanding that neither the host, guests, sponsors, or station
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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal, medical, financial, legal, counseling,
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professional service, or any advice.
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You should seek the services.
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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
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The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
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purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
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legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
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sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
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elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim.
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To a scam.
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Let's talk about scams. It's the must-listen show for anyone
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who wants to protect themselves and their loved ones from scams.
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Every Tuesday at 8 a.m. Pacific Time on K4HD Radio,
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Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and her guests will provide
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valuable insights and practical tips on how to recognize and
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protect yourself from scams. And now, here is your host,
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Joyce Petrowski.
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Good morning, everybody. My name is Brian Watson filling in
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for Joyce Petrowski. Thank you for turning into let's talk
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about scams. Today's topic is the future of cryptocurrency ATMs.
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If you've heard me on this show, I've been railing
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about these cryptocurrency ATMs quite a bit. But thank you
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for tuning in. I just thought about this right before
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we started the show today. by tuning in every Tuesday morning,
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you are getting your weekly dose of scam prevention because
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that's what we do here at Rose. We've been around
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for five years and we are in the prevention business.
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We want people not to get scammed at all. And
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we want to stop it at the beginning. We don't
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want to try to claw the money back after it's
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been sent to the scammers. So we want people... not
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to be scammed at all. So thank you for tuning in.
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Joyce will be back next week. So let's get into it.
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So I get to write for a newspaper in Southern Arizona.
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It's called the green Valley news. And I've been writing
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for them for quite a while. I've written over 30
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articles and I, I really enjoy doing it because it
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challenges me to come up with new topics and just
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new angles to get people's attention and, you know, with
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our ultimate goal of preventing people from getting scammed. So
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in August, there was an article in the green Valley news. Um,
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the reporters, Kim Smith, she's some, she is someone I've
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known for a long time, excellent reporter. And her article
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was all about a green Valley man, a local man
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who lost $ 300, 000 in two separate scams. So the first
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scam started in, with a text from an unknown number.
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Does it sound familiar? I've talked about this before. We're
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going to talk about it again. And eventually this person
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who contacted him suggested an investment in Bitcoin. So this,
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this story is a scary reminder that the criminals are
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basically like predators out there looking for their next victim.
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They could be lurking via email, text message, social media, phone.
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Calls, whatever it is.
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But it seems like it's happening more and more. You know,
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the numbers get worse every year, the reported numbers. And
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for a while there, it seemed like I would meet
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a victim quarterly, maybe monthly. Now I'm hearing about victims,
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sometimes even speaking to them weekly. It's absolutely getting worse.
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And because I interact with a multitude of victims, I
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know just from the trends that the criminal's are right
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now their preference is to steal money through cryptocurrency ATMs.
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It used to be the prepaid credit cards where they
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send you to a big box store. Have you purchased
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a prepaid debit card? Have you open it up, scratch
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the numbers off and take a picture and send it
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to them and you lose your money this way. Now, um,
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they're using the cryptocurrency ATMs in the case I mentioned
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above in the green Valley news, um, The victim in
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this case was sent to a cryptocurrency ATM in South Tucson.
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So the scammer actually had this person drive a pretty
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good distance going to another town to be able to
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use the cryptocurrency ATM. So how do these scams start?
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We're all about prevention and prevention is recognizing the scam.
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So criminals will text a wrong number on purpose and
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they do it knowing that most of us are raised
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well and we have kindness. And if someone sends the
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wrong number, the nice part of us responds back and said, oh,
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you have the wrong number. And if they can get
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you to text back, they'll say, I'm sorry.
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And then they'll say, where are you from? And I
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check the number carefully.
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It's my mistake. Let me buy you a cup of coffee.
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Where do you live? And it goes back and forth.
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And you know what? It's kind of fun.
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You know, here's the real scary thing, too. these calls
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are now automated through artificial intelligence.
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They have bots.
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They have these programs that just send out millions of
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wrong text numbers, just hoping people bite and AI will
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start a conversation at a certain point. They do transfer
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it to a human to make it more personal. So
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to give you an example, I shared this earlier this year,
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but I want to share it again because it's kind
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of a, a good story.
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I received a text number. I'm sorry.
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I received a text message. And the text came from
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an unknown number. I later figured out the area code
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was Connecticut. Phone number was not in my contact list
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and the text did not contain any words. It was
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just a picture of a puppy. And I mean, I
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knew immediately it was a scam because this is what
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I do. This is my part-time job. Um, so I
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decided to respond back because I knew it'd be a
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good learning experience. It'd be a good topic for a
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radio show and for an article. Um, I actually recommend
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don't texting back because you don't know. I recently learned
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that if you download a picture, you could actually download
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some malware, malicious software to your computer. So don't even
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mess with these people. I'm a quasi-professional when it comes
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to this, so I'm very careful. But don't respond back.
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But anyways, I did. I was rolling the dice a little.
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And I wrote back, who is this? You know, that's
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what they're expecting. And the person says, Annie. And she said,
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don't you remember me? You gave me this dog at
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your at your birthday party. And of course, what they
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want you to say is, well, I think you have
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the wrong number. And it goes back and forth. And
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eventually I ended it because it was going to go
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on forever. There's all kinds of variations of these wrong
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texting scams. You might get one with a photo of
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a bottle of wine and the person will say, hey,
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did you get the bottle of wine I sent over?
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And you're going to say, I didn't get a bottle
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of wine.
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Who is this?
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Or, hey, Bob. Are we still on for coffee tomorrow?
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And you're like, no, I think you got the wrong number.
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So when you see these text messages, you do not
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have to be nice. Just delete them.
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Okay.
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It'll save you a lot of time. So let's say,
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let's give a scenario where actually someone gets a wrong
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text and they start going back and forth and they
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have this ongoing conversation and It goes on for days
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or weeks, checking in every day.
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Hey, what did you do this weekend?
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Hey, when I'm out in your part of the country,
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let's go out to dinner because I think I've met
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an online friend. They're very patient. And the criminals will
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only mention investing in cryptocurrency after they think they've developed
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sufficient trust.
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They might say.
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Hey, my uncle invests in cryptocurrency and he's done really well.
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And he lets me invite a few people that I
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trust into his purchases. And they said, I, and the
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scammer will say, I feel like I know you, even
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though we've never met person. If you want to invest
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one or $ 2, 000 in cryptocurrency, I'll, I'll, my uncle will
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allow it.
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And so you do it.
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And then they actually show you a fake portal and,
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that you can put on your screen and it looks
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like the cryptocurrency is increasing and you get excited and
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they actually let you withdraw money. So, um, that's how
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it works. And, but it always starts where you're putting
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cash into a cryptocurrency ATM. If you ever find yourself
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in front of a cryptocurrency ATM and they look like
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regular ATMs, they usually found it smoke shops and liquor
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stores and convenience stores or grocery stores. you need to
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walk away. It's a complete scam.
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And if you see.
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Somebody in front of a cryptocurrency ATM and they look
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even a little bit stressed, go check on them, see
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how they're doing, make sure they're not getting scammed. So
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let's talk about these crypto ATMs. Um, the Iowa attorney
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general's office in 2025 actually did an investigation. They issued
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subpoenas to all these cryptocurrency ATM companies and And they
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found that at least 94 percent of the transactions using
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cryptocurrency ATMs from these two main companies were fraudulent. These
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scams cost Iowans about 20 million in losses over a
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three-year period. And so let's just back up a step.
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Why do we even have these machines? Because they're not
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a good deal. Financially, they're a horrible deal. Let's say
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you just had some money, And you wanted to invest
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in cryptocurrency because it's legal and a lot of people
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are doing it. And there's nothing illegal about cryptocurrency itself.
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It's only when scammers are involved. So let's say you
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decide to invest in cryptocurrency. Don't go to a cryptocurrency
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ATM because the big deal is. The fees on these
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machines can be 20% or more. So to give you
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an example, let's say I had $ 100 in cash, five
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$ 20 bills, and I walked up to a cryptocurrency ATM,
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signed in, created a password, put the $ 100 in, I
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might only get $ 75 or $ 80 of cryptocurrency. It's a
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horrible exchange rate. There's fees.
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It's bad.
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It's like withdrawing cash at an ATM at a casino.
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You're going to pay all kinds of fees. At the casino,
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you're going to pay your bank out of network fees
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and all that stuff. If you do want to invest
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in cryptocurrency on your own, and you've done your research
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and you've talked to someone in your family or your
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neighbor who's someone you trust, someone you know in person,
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you can do it from your home computer or your
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smartphone and it'd be a whole lot cheaper. So many
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of us in the scam prevention world keep asking the question,
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why do we even have these cryptocurrency ATMs at all?
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So fortunately, lawmakers in many states have stepped in and
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they've stepped up to the plate and they have started
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putting in legislation to protect their residents. So in 2026, um,
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three States, um, enacted total statewide bands, Indiana, Tennessee, and Minnesota.
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And then Hawaii did an interesting one. Um, they enacted
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a new state law that bands cash deposits at cryptocurrency ATMs.
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So the ATMs are still legal. They're still there, but
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you can't deposit cash. which is a good thing. So
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I applaud Hawaii for being creative. And more than a
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dozen other states are actively pursuing legislation that would either
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heavily restrict these machines or completely ban them. So I'm
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in Rose, our nonprofit, we are based in Arizona and
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last year in 2025, our government enacted a law that
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provides protections to consumers but cryptocurrency ATMs are still legal. Um,
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I like the protections that were put in place, but
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it almost, um, legitimizes them, uh, in a way where
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the government's blessed them to exist. Um, I'm hoping the
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leaders in our state will follow the leads of the
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other States and just seek an outright ban because I
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just cannot stand these machines. Um, I am frustrated and tired,
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and saddened every time I talk to someone or I
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read another article keeps us very motivated. Joyce, me, the
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rest of the board, our advisory committee, we all see
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the financial carnage of scams and we see how these
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cryptocurrency ATMs are so easily used by scammers. Now, as
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I said, at Rose, we don't want anyone to have
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their money stolen. Once you insert cash into one of
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these cryptocurrency ATMs, the money is almost always long gone.
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There are ways to claw it back. There is a
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digital trail called the blockchain, but you have to get
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law enforcement's attention and you got to find someone who
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knows what they're doing and you have to do it
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really fast. So there's three things that are very difficult
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to do. But if someone reaches out to you to
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invest in a cryptocurrency ATM, report it to law enforcement.
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And if you've lost money, you definitely have to report
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it to the FBI, IC3. gov. IC3. gov, that's their Internet Crime
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Complaint Center. can report it to the FTC and you
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can also report it to your local law enforcement agency.
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So just remember.
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Nothing wrong with cryptocurrency in itself. There's thousands of them.
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They've been around for a long enough where, you know, they're,
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they're legitimate, they're legal, but never, ever invest loan or