July 9, 2024

Safeguard Your Move: Insights from a Moving Industry Pro

In this episode of "Let's Talk About Scams," host Joyce Petrowski welcomes George Phillips, the business development manager at Just-In Time Moving (https://www.jitmoving.com) and a member of the Arizona Movers Association. George shares valuable...

Show Notes
Transcript

In this episode of "Let's Talk About Scams," host Joyce Petrowski welcomes George Phillips, the business development manager at Just-In Time Moving (jitmoving.com) and a member of the Arizona Movers Association. George shares valuable insights on how to choose a reputable moving company, focusing on the unique challenges and considerations for elderly individuals and interstate moves. He highlights the importance of verifying a moving company's credentials, such as their Department of Transportation number and membership in industry associations. George also discusses the issues surrounding "hostage shipments," where belongings are held for ransom, and provides tips on how to avoid such scams. Additionally, the episode covers the benefits of in-home estimates, the necessity of proper insurance coverage, and the advantages of professional packing services.Key Episode Takeaways

Verify moving companies by checking their Department of Transportation (DOT) number and membership in local and national moving associations.
Avoid scams by doing thorough research before hiring a moving company.
Understand the importance of in-home estimates for interstate moves to ensure accurate quotes and smooth operations.
Be aware of the legal protections against "hostage shipments" in Arizona and the appropriate authorities to contact if an issue arises.
Consider professional packing services to ensure compliance with international regulations and minimize the risk of damage during the move.

Key Resources

Remember, knowledge is power—subscribe to “Let’s Talk About Scams” podcast to stay updated on ways to safeguard your well-being against scams. Share what you’ve learned with your loved ones and stay vigilant. Stay safe and informed! Visit https://www.roseadvocacy.org/ for additional resources and newsletters to safeguard against scams.Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam. www.MoversAZ.org
Members on the page & also a Consumer Resources page www.ProtectYourMove.gov
You can check the Registered Mover Database, Information on Planning your move, Know your Rights and Responsibilities, Resources to Safeguard your move, Stop Moving Scams in their Tracks. Some good videos as well. https://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov/CompanySnapshot.aspx
You can put in a companies US DOT number or MC (Motor Carrier) number or search by Company Name. You can learn what the company is authorized to move whether intrastate vs interstate or both. If they are authorized to move household goods, If they are a broker or not. How many Power Units or trucks they have, if they have been put out of service for any reason.

WEBVTT

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Hi, welcome to Let's Talk about Scams. I'm your host,

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Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose Resources Outreach to safeguard the elderly.

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You can find more resources on our website at Roseadvocacy

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dot org. You can also sign up for our monthly

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email or mailed newsletters on the website. And don't forget

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you're going to want to click subscribe so you don't

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miss an episode of Let's Talk About Scams. Well, today

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I've got a guest. His name is George Phillips, and

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he is the business development person with Just in Time Moving,

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and he's also associated with Arizona Movers Association, and he's

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going to talk to us about what to do to

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when you're looking for a moving company, whether it's just

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in the state of Arizona, or you're looking to move

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from one state to another state, or they even do international.

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So let's let's bring them in. Hi, George, welcome, Thank

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you for joining me today.

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Happy to do so, Joyce, thank you very very much.

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Yeah, so, why don't you tell everyone a little bit

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about yourself.

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Yeah. So, my name is George Phillips. I'm the business

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development manager for a local moving company here in Mesa, Arizona.

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We do local, long distance and international moving. We specialize

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in a number of different things, senior moving being one

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of those, you know, very vulnerable population, and so I

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would like to make sure that move goes extremely well,

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you know, for folks who are struggling, to make sure

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that that you know, that that move goes well, especially

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so when it could go wrong a lot of times.

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Exactly exactly, So, do you guys go ahead?

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No, I was just going to say, do you guys

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do a lot of people moving into Arizona from other states?

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Yeah? Yeah, we do a lot going in and a

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lot going out. And so not necessarily when we started,

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you when I started six years ago here just in

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time moving as a business development manager, you know, we

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made sure a lot of those connections either started or

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ended in Arizona. But not necessarily anymore. We've kind of

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created a good network where they could kind of really

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be on the way. And so and I tell people

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call and so the only only way you know if

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that move would work, is to is to call our office.

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And so I move all of our calls into our

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office and if we can make.

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It work, okay, So.

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It's better for somebody to call your office to talk

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about the move versus going online and doing something online.

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They could look online, but what I found is, you know,

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I'm kind of more of a relationship guy, and so

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I like to you know, belly to belly, face to

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face networking, and so in doing that, most of the

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people you'll really like to pick up the phone and

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just talk to somebody. And so I think our folks

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do an incredibly great job of helping set that tone

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put people at ease at one of a stressful you

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know time in their lives.

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It is stressful.

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So yeah, yeah, line and get information, but pick up

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the phone is probably the best always way.

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Okay, all right, So with all the moving that you've

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been involved in in in your six years, there are

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there any specific incidences where involving the older adults, you know,

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maybe they were with another moving company, and I've heard

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that people's belongings like get held for ransom for lack

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of a better term, And I mean, if you guys

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encountered any of that stuff, yeah, we.

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Were across that from time to time. Unfortunately, it seems

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like it's lessened a little bit, but there's kind of

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that's good spikes here and there. So you know, four

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years ago we started the Arizona Moving Association, so we

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found more and more of those calls that have come

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to us and through the association. But yeah, yeah, you

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run across those from time to time unfortunately, where people

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will have their have their goods held hostage, and.

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That's the better term. Hostage.

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Yeah, hostage we have we call them hostage shipments. And

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really what we've done is we worked back even before

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my time here twenty seventeen, just in our owner and

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then one of the owners of Camelback Moving, Chad Chad Olsen,

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and then some other the Dirt Dirts Moving worked with

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the Arizona Trucking Associations. I'll put through a law and

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hostage shipments and so it's actually a lot of that's

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on the books. And so most times what folks will call,

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you know, nine to one one or non emergent, they'll go, hay, listen,

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someone's got my goods and right given to me. They're

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demanding extra money, and a lot of times unfortunately the

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dispatch person on the phone nothing wrong, but they just

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don't know. Sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

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That's a civil matter and it's not a civil matter.

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It's someone's goods are held hostage and so you know,

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you cannot hold stuff on your truck and then demand

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extra money.

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So that law that got put into place, is that

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just an Arizona or is that a federal law that's

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just so?

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If it was, so, it's.

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Going to hit any moving company that their destination is

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Arizona or they operate out of Arizona.

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Destination destination is an an interstate move from out of

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state into Arizona.

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Got it, Okay?

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That they're for the hot stage shipments and so it's

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not a civil matter. So does that make it a

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criminal matter?

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Then yeah, absolutely, Okay, there's steps that folks need to follow.

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So a couple of folks that kind of oversee our

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industry is the Arizona Attorney General's Office, Okay, the Arizona

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Department of Public Safety Commercial Vehicle Enforcement and so okay,

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anything in trust state which is a move within the

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state of Arizona is handled by the Arizona Attorney General's

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Office and then the Arizona Department of Public Safety Commercial

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Vehicle Enforcement handles handles most of the interstate moves and

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so state to state antime across state lines.

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So if somebody has an issue that they can't get

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resolved with a moving company that's within Arizona. The move

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is within Arizona, they should call the Arizona Attorney General's Office.

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Yep. Yeah.

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And anybody that's got an interstate move that is Arizona,

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but it also involves an the state. Normally, they're probably

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moving to Arizona from another state, they should call the

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say it again, because it's a lot.

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Yeah, I know, it's a lot. The Arizona Department of

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Public Safety, the DPS Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Okay.

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And then we'll we'll have the links to both of

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those in the show notes, so people can get that

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information and know exactly where to go to if they

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have they cannot get resolved. Oh, okay, we can do

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the document then. Yeah, you always want to try to

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get the issue resolved with the company, right because it

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could be that, you know, the people in the office

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at the company don't know what's going on, and you

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bring it to their attention and then they can resolve it.

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But if they can't, it's nice to know that there's

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other measures that can be taken.

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And that almost leads me to my other my original

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point a lot of this stuff is so for since

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we create the Arizona Movement Association, We'll get phone calls

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from people who will complain about a mover and I'll

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be like, like, what's the name of your moving company?

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And they'll say, well, x y Z moving And I said, well,

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x y Z movement unfortunately isn't part of the air

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Zone Movement Association, and that I have no jurisdiction, I

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have no teeth, I have no I have nothing I

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can do. I mean I could call them and say, hey,

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x y Z moving, this is the Arizona Movement Association.

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For the most part, They're really not going to care.

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They're gonna hang up the phone. And so I tell

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consumers all the time, do your research before the move,

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not after the move, right, you know, do do your

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research on on who the mover is. Make sure that

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they you know, they have maybe uh, you know, a

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motor carrier number, you know, a dot number, especially if

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they're going to interstate. Make sure they're part of local

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and national moving associations, you know, whatever that industry association is.

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And so those are important stuff for people to do.

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Okay, Yeah, that's great because that's one thing we you know,

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try to educate people on is you know, you can't

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just trust people. You have to go verify you know,

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everything first before you can trust them.

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So those are good points.

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We always try to tell people, you know, and give

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them the information on well how can you verify you know,

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what should you do? And so you know, asking for

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that dot number or what was the first one.

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You said, Yeah, the motor carrier number.

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The motor carrier number or the dot number, they should

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probably get both. I mean, there shouldn't be any reason

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why the moving company wouldn't give that information out right

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one hundred percent.

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And you can always there's what there's sites I can

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give you that people can go on and research through

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the Department of Transportation.

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You know, are they going to be on that that

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PDF that you have.

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It's a different Yeah, Unfortunately, it's a different form. We

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tried to create this form with the Arizona Attorney General's

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Office just kind of a one cheeter a for consumers,

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but b that it can get out to you know,

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the beat officers on the street and dispatch and those folks. Okay,

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calls do come in, they can really help kind of

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move these these things along.

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Okay, all right, Well that sounds good.

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So so how does how does the Arizona Moving Association

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work with other moving companies? You said, someone can call

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the Moving Association and they file a complaint. So what

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would happen if a moving the moving company the person's

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filing a complaint on is a member of the association.

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Yeah, And we've had a few of those where it's

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just kind of been, you know, just just miscommunication. And

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so somebody thought they heard something, and you know, we

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had to call one of the moving companies and say, hey, listen,

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got a phone call, you know, just want to just

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double check. And they said, yeah, yeah, that's that's not

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quite what happened, George, here's really what happened. And so okay,

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so I said, okay, Well I called the consumer back.

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I said, hey, listen, can I get that and write

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in I just want to make sure I get everything

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in writing. I want to verify this. I'm getting a

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response back from the moving company and then and then

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I'll see if I can, if we need to, we'll

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get on a three way call. And so they send

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me their response, the moving company send me their response,

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and then I share it with both as an introductory email.

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And how do we work through this? And they're like

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I got a phone call or an email from both

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of them saying, hey, problems resolved, Everything's good.

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Nice.

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So a lot of is just making sure they got

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in the same page, and someone just sometimes just wants

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to be heard or.

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Right right, And you know, with anything, communication is key,

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and people's perception is key, because even though you communicate,

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somebody might have a perception different than the other party, right,

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And so it's just making sure they both understand that.

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So yeah, but the unfortunate part is most of the

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time it's been from movers who aren't part of our association.

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And I don't look at these people's websites and their

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stock photos. There are links on their website that don't

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go to anything. Okay, they might put like one of

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the National Association logos on their site.

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I mean, but they don't belong right.

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There, and you see the logo, but it's like sometimes

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call and verifire go to their website and like for us,

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we put all of our moving companies on our website.

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That's an active list of who are who our members

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are and so. Right.

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So, and there's probably a lot of other states that

227
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.720
have this type of moving association because although moving has

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very little regulation in Arizona, there might be other states

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00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:33.000
that have a lot more regulation.

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One percent, Yeah, California, New York, New Jersey, you know, Illinois.

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A lot of these guys are are are very well regulated.

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And so you know, we're we're we're working on we

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don't listen, we don't want to. We always say we

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00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:50.559
don't want to be overly regulated. But what we want

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to do is to at least create some kind of

236
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minimum baseline of consumer protection so that when the consumer

237
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has confidence when then they're reaching out to the moving company,

238
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that they know that they're being taken care of.

239
00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:07.000
Right, absolutely, absolutely, So for whether it's you know, some

240
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:10.080
older adults that are looking for moving companies or maybe

241
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:14.399
their families are helping them out, what would you say

242
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would be maybe the first two or three things that

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they should do. And I don't know, maybe that's all,

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you know, it's just two or three things that would

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give them an idea.

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As to who their top picks are.

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Right, Yeah, No, absolutely. I always say you know kind

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of you know, do your research, right. I mean, there's

249
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a lot of great websites, you know, Dot puts out one.

250
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:42.080
So we're regulated kind of over interstate wise, also by

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DOT obviously I mentioned having a DOT number and a

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motor carrier number. Those are a run through the Department

253
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:51.720
of Transportation. There's a group right underneath the Department of

254
00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:59.600
Transfer Transportation called the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration the FMCSA. Okay,

255
00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:04.720
those guys, you know, kind of help, you know, regulate

256
00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:09.320
our industry, oversee our industry and so. But they put

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out a lot of good information. And so one of

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the websites is Protect your Move dot g o V

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and so videos. There's brochures that that customers should get,

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especially when doing an interstate move. And so, you know,

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one of the big red flags I always tell you is,

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00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:32.399
you know, if if you're doing an interstate move and

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somebody doesn't come to your house to do an in

264
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:40.279
home estimate, you're probably you probably shouldn't hire those guys. Okay,

265
00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:44.600
if you're doing an inter interstate move, you should have

266
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an in home estimate. It's almost it is required to

267
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:50.960
have eyes on it. So it could be a virtual

268
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.559
or an in home, but in home is the preferred method.

269
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:56.879
Especially you know, if you know you're like in the

270
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:58.879
value of the son. There's no reason that you shouldn't

271
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if you're in.

272
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An ally and area, a more rural area, right there

273
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.320
might be might be more difficult to write to get

274
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.440
to them, but even virtual can have its limitations, right

275
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:13.039
because then you're relying on the person to make sure

276
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they show the mover that's doing the estimate all.

277
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Of the rooms and the whole room. And you know what,

278
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what the homeowner might think is no big deal.

279
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:27.559
You know, the mover it would be.

280
00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:30.759
A big deal, right if they've got to take something apart,

281
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.840
if it's got glass in it, you know, if it's heavy,

282
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you know, just a lot of different things. It could

283
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.799
be a big piece of furniture that you're thinking, oh,

284
00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:44.159
this isn't going to be any big deal, but trying

285
00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:48.240
to get it through the doors yep, and around tight

286
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.799
corners could be a big deal, right.

287
00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:55.919
Yeah, yeah, nothing, Nothing is better than an estimator and

288
00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.200
a home estimator being there and looking at the job.

289
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.879
And that that goes from backing in the driveway, coming

290
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.039
down the road, making sure they've got a clear access

291
00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:07.360
to the house where they're going to park the trucks

292
00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:12.879
that's in around the house upstairs, the whole picture, and

293
00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:16.159
so yeah, we don't we don't want any challenges come

294
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:20.039
move day. The move day is stressful enough and so exactly.

295
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:24.039
I mean, I've seen it before where a couch has

296
00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.639
had to go up over a balcony on the second

297
00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.080
floor and in through the sliding glass doors because you

298
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.440
could go up the stairs with it, but you couldn't

299
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.440
turn the tight corner and get it in the door.

300
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Yeah, especially as you get into like the East Coast,

301
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.159
and some of those even even some homes in Arizona,

302
00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:42.360
but mostly a lot of times we see those in

303
00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:44.480
like East Coast and we go deliver to like Boston

304
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:47.399
or New York. Sometimes they're up and up and in

305
00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.919
windows and so. But the other I always tell me

306
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is to you know, to downsize and organize and so

307
00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:55.919
don't pay for things that.

308
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.519
You don't need to move exactly right.

309
00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:01.600
That's a good thing purging, right, go through your stuff

310
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:05.160
and get rid of what you're not going to use,

311
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because if it's going to be moved and on the

312
00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.480
truck and moved into your new place, you're paying for it.

313
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.680
Right, one hundred percent. And I always tell every listen

314
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if you're moving, especially from state to state, or even

315
00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.599
with the international moves, if it's not going to fit

316
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:21.640
your decor where you're going, don't take it, you know,

317
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.160
selling it, leaving it and then buying new when you

318
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:25.960
get there, and.

319
00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:28.720
So right right, yeah, you know, donating it to a charity,

320
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.559
having a garage sale, taking it to the church rummage sale,

321
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:37.640
you know what, whatever whatever works. But is there do

322
00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:40.880
you know of any sort of like insurance that a

323
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:45.559
homeowner could get that like would cover the move?

324
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.559
Yeah, actually, so part of that, that's a good part

325
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:52.880
about having the moving starting the moving association. So we

326
00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:56.000
do all the relationships with folks all over all over

327
00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:59.640
the country. And just last week we did a podcast

328
00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.559
through our association. We do vendor spotlights and so one

329
00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:06.839
of one of our vendor spotlights was Relocation Insurance dot

330
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.640
Com or Moving Insurance dot com. So relocation so uh

331
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.000
gaddy is out of New Jersey and sales in all

332
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:18.880
fifty states and and offers that for you know, moving

333
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.880
companies and clients and so because one of the biggest

334
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.359
headaches for most moving companies is unfortunately claims and so

335
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.319
you know it's one of the things we don't like

336
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:30.920
to deal with.

337
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:35.200
It's right, Yeah, no, I mean that could that could

338
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.279
end up making that move a loss.

339
00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:37.960
Ye.

340
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.759
So so you've got protect your Move dot Com to

341
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.799
go on and oh, protect your Move dot gov. That's

342
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.799
g o V where you can go on and watch

343
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.720
videos and get information on really what you should do

344
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.559
and and and verifying and all that stuff. But then

345
00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:01.759
you've got for the insurance, it's move insurance, yeah.

346
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:07.559
Move move, moving insurance, Relocation insurance dot com. I think

347
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.359
that's under moving insurance dot com. I believe, I'm almost

348
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:18.880
positive insurance dot com. That is that it Moving insurance

349
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:19.480
dot com.

350
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:20.839
Yep, that's the kind.

351
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.519
And then they would get to that company that you

352
00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:24.279
guys interviewed yep.

353
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:27.920
Yeah, it's a relocation insurance group company. Gaddy Benis is

354
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:31.240
his name. Yep. Okay, location insurance and a lot of

355
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.799
and a lot of moving professional moving companies do offer

356
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:37.759
we don't like to call it insurance. We always like

357
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:42.079
to call it coverage. And so a lot of moving

358
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:44.920
companies will offer more than the standard you know, sixty

359
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:49.599
cents per pound coverage with terrible coverage. If anyone's ever

360
00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:53.759
weighed their TV, so you know, if you think your

361
00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:57.319
your TV ways, I don't know, fifteen pounds time. Sixty

362
00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:01.640
cents that's what you're getting that thing breaks, you know, wow, wow,

363
00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:06.359
the sixty cents a pound is not great. No, you know,

364
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:09.440
as you start to move that you'll interstate you'll see

365
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:12.680
that that number. Okay, a little bit, a little bit more.

366
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.559
But okay, well that that's that's Another good thing is

367
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.119
to ask the moving company if if they have insurance,

368
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.839
they have coverage in case of damages, you know, which

369
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:29.039
I can imagine that damages happen. I don't know maybe

370
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:31.799
half the time, you know, a quarter of the time,

371
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:36.119
because sometimes just walking with a piece of glass and

372
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.720
you're going from air conditioned to one hundred and fifteen

373
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.000
degrees and all of a sudden or vice versa, that

374
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:42.359
glass just shatters.

375
00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.160
Right, you know, it's temperature difference is like out here

376
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:45.759
in Arizona.

377
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.079
Yeah. And I would say that the last one of

378
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:49.839
the last conferences I went to, I think they said

379
00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:53.640
twenty percent. It's probably at a twenty percent damage ratio.

380
00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:59.000
Oh okay, so okay, and you know, I think last

381
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.079
time I talked to Justin, I think we said at

382
00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:02.960
about eleven or twelve percent.

383
00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:05.400
Of that's good. Yeah, so you're below the average.

384
00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:07.960
Industry outage, which is good. But what I would say though,

385
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:12.839
is it's amazing how you move things from one house

386
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:15.480
that has different light to another house that has different light,

387
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.319
and you might say scratches or blemishes or things that

388
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.119
you think might get damaged. That's why for moving moving movers,

389
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.240
we always try to tell our guys on the truck says, listen,

390
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.440
if you see something, literally say something to the customer

391
00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.200
before you pick it up. Right, Hey, I just want

392
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.160
to let you know this is what I'm seeing. And

393
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:36.359
so that's.

394
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.519
A good point because every house has different lighting, right,

395
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.599
and you're right, you get into a brighter light and

396
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.160

Safeguard Your Move: Insights from a Moving Industry Pro

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