Sept. 16, 2025

Social Engineering and The Need For Recurring Education

Social Engineering and The Need For Recurring Education
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Season 1

Social engineering is on the rise and the scammers are getting better at exploiting our vulnerabilities.

Tune in to learn the most common types of social engineering techniques, how to protect yourself, and why you need recurring education.

Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.

WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas. The information contained in this podcast is intended

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for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for

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individual professional legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled

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from vetted sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to

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safeguard the elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall

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victim to a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the

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must listen show for anyone who wants to protect themselves

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and their loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific

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time on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose,

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and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips

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on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And

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now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.

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Hi, everybody, it's great to be back. I trust you

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all enjoyed Brian last week talking about why you should

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use gel pens when you're writing checks, filling out legal documents,

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all of that stuff. Today we're going to talk about

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social engineering and how that plays a huge part in scams.

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But first, don't forget to go to Roseadvocacy dot Org.

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On the homepage, if you scroll to the bottom, you

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can see the links to sign up for our emailed

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newsletter and our mailed newsletter, and you'll also find at

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the top at the homepage our social media links. I

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will tell you right now we're having an issue with Facebook.

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We're we're not on Facebook right now. I'm working with

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Facebook to rectify that. But I'm hoping in the next

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week it'll it'll be back up. It's been down for

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I believe three weeks today. So anyways, you'll find more

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resources on our website as well. Events will be posted,

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and of course there's the donation tab to help us

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get more of this education out to the seniors. So today,

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social engineering. So when I'm out in the public and

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I'm talking to people and I you know, they they

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ask me what I do, and I tell them about

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the scam prevention through education program that we have for seniors,

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and you know that they're the most targeted and lose

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the most money by far every year out of all

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the populations. And we get to talking about it, and

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I hear a lot of people say, and I think

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there's people out there that don't say it, but are

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thinking it. Oh, my parents, grandparents, et cetera. They're still

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have their cognitive you know, they're still cognitively intact and

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or they're very very smart. They're not going to fall

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for a scam. And so then that kind of taught

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rolls into the well, if they're not going to fall

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for a scam, we really don't need this scam prevention

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through education information. My response to that is, well, until

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they do, because the first thing in scam prevention is

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you need to understand that everybody's a target and everybody

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is vulnerable to falling victim. Why, Because we're human. Sometimes

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we're busy trying to do three to five things at once,

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and we get hit with that email or that text message,

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and we don't think twice. We just click on a link,

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we call a number back, and we don't really think

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about it. You know, we're busy or the scammer evokes

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a specific emotion in US social engineering. So the social

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engineering part is, scammers are excellent at this, They are

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experts at this, using your emotions in your good nature

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against you. They're exploiting, they're exploiting that to get you

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to turn over your money and or your personal identifiable information.

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Don't get me wrong, My hope is that no more

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seniors or anyone for that matter, is going to fall

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victim to a scam. But the reality in today's world

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is that many, many people, especially seniors, fall victim to

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scam on a daily basis, and a lot of seniors

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lose their life savings. And I know it's not a

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topic that everybody wants to talk about or think about

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it because it's not fun, it's not happy, and all

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of that. But if we can get this reoccurring education

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out there, because we believe the best way to combat

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scams and social engineering is education, getting people to understand

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scams more and know the red flags to look out for,

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and making scam prevention a habit. So when you get

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that next phone call, you get that text, you get

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that email, you get something in the mail, you're searching

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for a website and you might come on a spoofed website.

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You have scam prevention in the back of your mind,

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and so you're thinking about it, and you're thinking about

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the red flags to look out for. What do I

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need to look at? Oh, on this email, Let me

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go to the url. Let me, you know, see where

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this link is going to take me without clicking on it.

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Let me see the sender, what their email address is.

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You know, I just recently got an email from the

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geek Squad saying that my credit card is going to

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be charged in a couple of days for renewal of

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some I don't know if it was an anti virus

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anti maoware or if it was like a maintenance program.

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I just looked at it and said, I don't have

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an account with geek Squad, so this isn't accurate. But

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I went up and I looked at the email address

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that it was coming from, and it had a person's name.

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It had a lady's name, but if you hover over

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the name, you can see the actual email address, and

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it was not from the geek Squad. And if I

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looked at the email address of where they were sending

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it to, it was a mix of a bunch of

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letters and upper case and lowercase and numbers and stuff like.

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It made no sense. It was not my email address,

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so I knew it was a scam and I didn't

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click on any links. But if you have a geek

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Squad account, you might be tempted to click on that link, right,

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And so this is where making scam prevention a habit,

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you're going to be more app to think. Okay, before

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I click on this link, I need to look at

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the email addresses. Let me look at the body of

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the email. Well, you know what, I have an online

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account with geek Squad. Let me go to my online

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account and see when my renewal is or I have

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the phone number to geek Squad. Let me call them,

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not the phone number from the email, but I have

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the verified phone number. Let me call them and find

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out what's going on. When we make scam prevention a habit,

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and making it a habit is education. And so you

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come in to one of our in person presentations or

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we do do some virtually right so you can follow

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us on a bunch of different social media accounts, as

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we have a Facebook account right now, It's just not

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it's just not live. I'm hoping in the next week

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it will be. But we're on LinkedIn, we're on Instagram,

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and you know, maybe we'll give x a try here

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in the near future. But we have the emails. You

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can get a you can get an email or not

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an email, the newsletter. Sorry. You can get the newsletter

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via email, or you could get one sent in the mail.

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Some people don't like to read their information on the

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computer on an email. They actually want to hold it

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and something in the mail and they want to read it,

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and that's fine. We offer it both ways. And then

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we have this radio show every week we give out

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information on different topics related to scams. You're going to

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you can find all of our episodes on the YouTube

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our YouTube channel. We subscribe to the YouTube channel. You

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can also go to our Let's Talk about Scams dot

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com website. You can find them all there. You can

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see where we're at on the podcast platforms and go

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find our information there. But this is a way to

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reinforce scam prevention and keep it top of mind because

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the reality today is it's gotten way, way way out

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of control. And as I said before, our hope is

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that nobody else falls victim to scams. Now we know

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right now that's not going to happen. It's going to

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take some time to get everybody into the habit of

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scam prevention. But that's what we're working towards. That's our goal.

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We want to make sure no one falls victim to

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a scam. They're able to recognize the red flags, do

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their research, verify, and then make the determination if this

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is legitimate or if it's a scam. Social engineer on

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Forbes and it was for the Forbes Technology Council and

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it was done recently June TEWOD twenty twenty five. It's

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titled social Engineering Why we are wired to fall for scams?

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And I thought it was quite interesting. So let's see

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what this and this isn't. This works no matter if

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you're working for a company and you get phishing emails

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or text or phone calls or stuff like that, or

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if you're this is on a personal basis. So attackers, scammers,

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they target human psychology, and now with artificial intelligence that

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is supercharged, so they use tools like deep fakes. They

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can impersonate CEOs of companies, they can impersonate your grandchildren,

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your children, they can impersonate a friend all to manipulate

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your trust and override your judgment. They tap into your

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human nature, fear, trust, authority, so and they reference one case,

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a finance employee at a multinational firm paid twenty five

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million dollars to scammers after they received a deep fake

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video conference call with someone posing as the chief financial officer.

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This is how good scammers are and with the with

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AI getting more prevalent, it makes it all the more

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difficult to determine what is real and what is fake. Again,

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why you need the education and the reoccurring education you

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know and and say you get. We do a tip

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Tuesday via email every week on Tuesday mornings nine to fifteen.

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It'll be coming out in about an hour. And you

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might look at the title and go, okay, well I've

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already read about that. I know about it. Great, awesome,

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go on to your next email. But you might look

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at the title and go, oh, I haven't heard of that.

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I need to read this. It's a quick tip, so

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it's there to give you information, but it's also there

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even if you already know about the tip. It's there

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to reinforce the scam prevention to make to grow your

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healthy skepticism and make you want to pause and not

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panic and question things. Okay, so now I'm going to

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get into so what are some examples like of what

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scammers might exploit with social engineering? And I'm going to

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use something. I'm going to use this information out of

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the psychology of fraud, persuasion, and scam techniques by Understanding

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What makes Us Vulnerable by doctor Martina Dove. You can

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find the book on Amazon. This was done in twenty

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twenty one, but she has an update coming out volume two.

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I guess it would be called and I believe she

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said it's due to come out in October. This is

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a great book if you like to read books and

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learning how scammers exploit our vulnerabilities with the psychology. So

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one of the things they'll do is they'll evoke visceral influence.

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So what is visceral influence? So it's our primal drives

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such as hunger, fear, greed, and they can be very powerful.

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When people are under visceral influence, all they can think

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about is how to address that need. So if you're hungry,

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we think about how to get food. When we're afraid,

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we prepare to fight or flight, getting into your sympathetic mode,

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your fight or flight mode, and it lowers our perception

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of the risk we might be taking and makes us

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act more impulsively. And so a lot of scams will

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evoke that visceral influence. So an example of that could

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be so fear you get a phone call and grandparents scam.

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We've talked about this before. Remember when they first came out,

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the scammers usually had no idea the names of your grandkids,

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and then they evolved and were able to figure out

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the names of your grandkids. So when they called, they

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actually said, hey, Grandma, this is Johnny. They actually had

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the name, and some people would say, well, I know

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it's a scam because the voice didn't sound like Johnny

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at all. Now with AI, they can clone Johnny's voice

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and make that phone call sound exactly like Johnny, which

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is going to evoke your visceral influence or your primal

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drive of fear, which is then and scammers are experts

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at this. They know how to keep you in that

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emotional state of fear. So you're not going to question,

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You're just going to go do what they want you

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to do, which is go to the bank and get

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money out, do a wire transfer, take the money over

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to a cryptocurrency ATM machine. They know exactly where they're at.

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They will stay on the phone with you. They're anticipating

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the questions that the bank teller is going to ask.

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They've already given you answers and coached you on what

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to say. I've talked to many people that have fallen

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victim to scams, and they've said the bank teller or

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the clerk with they were buying gift cards was askeding

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them questions because they thought it was a scam. And

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they said, I flat out lied to them because they

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were so focused on the fear and they needed to

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do what they thought needed to be done to get

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their grandchild out of trouble. So another one is liking

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in similarity, so scammers can often appear very friendly and

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likable and pretend to like their victims, giving them compliments,

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having frequent contact with a victim. So we when we

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communicate with someone who appeers who appears to like us,

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we're less likely to scrutinize the facts in the message.

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And when we like the person communicating, they're friendly, they're

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nice to us, they compliment us, we're more likely to

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assign positive characteristics to that person, and this is interesting,

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so she had And here it also works in reverse.

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When we dislike someone, we may attach negative attributes to

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their work irrespective of quality. So here's an example. One

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00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:17.319
is communicating with a sharply dressed, good looking, pleasant and

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friendly fraudster. One might decide based on that information that

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they look credible. The idea of credibility is then assigned

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to the information that the fraudster is giving us. I've

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often talked to victims that said, I can't believe they

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00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:40.119
did that. They were so nice. It was as if

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they were my friend or that nice looking man or woman.

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I can't believe they did that. They didn't look like

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a scammer. And again I have no idea what people's

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perceptions are of what a scammer's going to look like

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outside of what you see in memes and different things

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00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:04.480
like that, where they always have a person you know

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with it. It's always dark in the background, and they

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have a hoodie on and they're hunched over a computer

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and stuff like that. Anyways, so that's liking. In similarity,

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another one is credibility and legitimacy, So scams would not

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be convincing if they were obvious, so obviously you wouldn't

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know it's a scam. So scammers go to great lengths

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to design credible and legitimate looking correspondence that mimics genuine organizations.

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So they'll you get an email, say from Amazon, because

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they love to impersonate Amazon, because just about everybody has

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an Amazon account, whether you use it or not. They're

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going to have the Amazon logo on there. They probably

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have an Amazon account, they know how an email would look,

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or they know how an order would look, and so

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they're going to mimic that. If they are spoofing a

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legitimate organization's website, they're gonna make that website look very,

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very similar to the legitimate organization, which is why we

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say check the URL or the website address up in

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00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:23.400
the Internet search bar and make sure everything to the

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right of the app site or sorry not that's an

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email address, and make sure that website is the verified,

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00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:38.599
legitimate website. A lot of people get like with nonprofits

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00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:45.039
word dot org RG, but something comes through dot com,

284
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.400
so it would be like ours is Rosadvocacy dot org.

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But if someone wanted to spoof it and say dot

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00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:58.960
net or dot com or something like that you might

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00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.079
not look at the net dot org. You just might

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00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.359
see Rose Advocacy and go, okay, that's that's legitimate. But

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you need to look at the dot com dot net

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00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:12.960
and you need to know which one is the legitimate website.

291
00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:17.279
Government organizations they're going to be dot gov, go o V.

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So if you get somebody saying it's a government website

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00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.400
and it's not dot gov, then you need to be

294
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:30.039
very very suspicious and do your own research and find

295
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:34.000
the verified website of whatever government agency it is you're

296
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:40.000
looking for. Let me see what else she says here.

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This not only does with web websites. We talked about

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00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:54.519
emails and text messages as well. A lot of I

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00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:57.920
shouldn't say a lot, but I would say more so

300
00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:02.200
than not. A lot of companies now are they will

301
00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:07.119
communicate via text message, especially if you're scheduling service, you know,

302
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.759
and you've got a service person coming out. They might confirm,

303
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.079
you know, doctors' offices, a hospital, all that stuff. They're

304
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.680
going to send emails, but they send text messages as well,

305
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:19.720
you know, confirming the appointments or here's a link to

306
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:22.839
go into your portal and to fill out paperwork. Be

307
00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.880
very very careful with those and make sure you can

308
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:31.039
hover over the link without clicking it to see what

309
00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:34.480
website address it's going to to make sure it's the

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00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.599
verified one, or you could just go to the verified

311
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.880
website and the company should have a link on their

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00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.920
verified website to whatever customer portal that you can click

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00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.200
on and then log in and get there that way

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00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:56.039
as well. Another one is uh, you know, evoking social norms,

315
00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:03.599
so being kind, helpful, charitable, law abiding, or simply returning favors.

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00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:08.359
These are all social norms that scammers frequently exploit by

317
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:14.519
pretending to be in need. So an example, often when

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00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.319
there's a natural disaster and it's publicized in the news,

319
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.640
fake charity appeals crop up because we're likely to be

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00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:27.640
inspired to help, or fraudsters may hijack someone's social media

321
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:32.000
account or email and then target their friends asking for

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00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.319
financial help to get out of unexpected situations. So they're

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00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:40.680
very powerful because they play on what we were brought

324
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.960
up to value and understand, helping friends and family or

325
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.799
simply being charitable when there are people in need. So

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00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:56.359
Martina mentions the natural disasters and fake charity appeals come up.

327
00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:02.200
So happens all the time with natural disasters, you might

328
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.319
have donated to one, you know, maybe giving them twenty

329
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:09.079
five dollars and you don't even know that it was

330
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:15.160
it was a scammer posing as someone from a legitimate charity,

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00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.680
or a scammer just making up a fake charity. But

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now they have your credit card and at some point

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00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:24.519
you are going to be able to see some fraudulent

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00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.599
charges come through on the credit card. And yes, there's

335
00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:31.160
a million different ways that scammers can get your credit

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00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.240
card information and use it. So when you find those

337
00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:37.240
fraudulent charges, you might go, all right, I have no

338
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:40.359
idea how a scammer got this. I'm just going to

339
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.720
close my account and you know, get a new card.

340
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.160
But there are ways that you can verify charities. You

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00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.960
can do it at the IRS dot gov. It takes

342
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.359
a little bit more clicking through different links because you're

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00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:58.839
going to have to search charity verification and click on

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00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.200
some links a few times. Or you could go to

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00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:07.559
Charity navigator dot org and in the search bar type

346
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:15.599
in charity verification or type in the tax identification number

347
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.599
of the charity. And this is something that we talk

348
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:23.519
about during our presentations and our resource packet that we

349
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:27.400
hand out to every attendee was twenty two pages. We

350
00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:29.440
just redid it at the beginning of the month and

351
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.640
it's now thirty pages of a variety of different resources,

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00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:36.480
and one of them is verifying a charity and why

353
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:39.519
you want to use the tax identification number and not

354
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:43.880
the charity's name. Rose is a perfect example. So the

355
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.640
way I had set Rose up was capital R period,

356
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:51.279
capital O period, capital S period, capital E period. I

357
00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.480
know you're probably thinking, why in the world did you

358
00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:57.640
do that? This is complicated, and then it's resources slash

359
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:02.559
outreach to safeguard the elderly, and looking back on it now,

360
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:04.920
I totally agree with you, but that's just the way

361
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:10.640
I did it. So when we filed for tax exempt

362
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:17.119
status with the IRS, they didn't like the periods all

363
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:19.839
the capital letters for slash mark, so they typed it

364
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:24.599
in as capital R OSEE and then capital R resources.

365
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.680
You know, capital O outreach like that. Well, you wouldn't

366
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:31.519
know that. And if you put the inform the name

367
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.680
of Rose in the way we have it listed in

368
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:37.599
our logo on our website, it's going to come up

369
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.480
and say there's no charity. But if you use our

370
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.880
tax identification number which is eight seven dash two four

371
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:50.759
seven eight three four nine. It will come up to

372
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:53.160
our charity right away. It'll tell you it's a five

373
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.599
oh one C three. Donations are tax deductible. It'll most

374
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:01.200
likely on charity Navigator have a link to our website

375
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:07.920
and Charity Navigator. Also, when we had the hurricanes that

376
00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:12.440
came the really bad hurricanes that came through gosh, has

377
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:16.480
that been a year ago now that that happened when

378
00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:18.279
they and they came all the way up the east

379
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:21.240
coast and like areas of North Carolina got hit really

380
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:26.440
hard and Florida and so Charity Navigator had on their

381
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:32.599
website highly rated charities to help to help with hurricane

382
00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:34.880
and forgive me, but I just don't remember the name

383
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.799
of the hurricane right now. And you could click on

384
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:42.640
it and you could go by state and look at

385
00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:47.640
the highly rated charities that were helping in those hurricane

386
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:53.200
cleanup efforts and recovery efforts. So just remember to always

387
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.599
verify a charity. And if you get a call and

388
00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:01.880
it's they're saying they're from a nonprofit, a charity that

389
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:05.119
you're familiar with, you know, like a big national charity,

390
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:09.519
and maybe you donate to that charity, don't necessarily believe

391
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:11.680
the person on the other end of that phone call

392
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:18.519
is actually with that charity. You can then go directly

393
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:22.759
to the charities verified website. You can make your donation online.

394
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:24.880
They'll have a mailing address on there if you want

395
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:28.119
to mail them a check, and that's your way to

396
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.000
verify instead of just believing who's on the other end

397
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.920
of that phone call, who's on the other end of

398
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:36.920
that email, that text message, And I know some charities

399
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.599
do peer to peer fundraising through text messages as well,

400
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.839
so again you just want to be very very careful.

401
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:53.079
The next thing is authority. So we're brought up to

402
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:58.240
trust and obey authority figures and it's seen as correct

403
00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:07.000
social conduct. So request coming from police officers, doctors, lawyers,

404
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:13.039
bank officials, or even your clergy will inspire less scrutiny.

405
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:17.240
Then requests from random people and random people not meeting

406
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:20.480
your friends what we talked about previously, or your family members.

407
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.240
You know, so and there was and it's probably still

408
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:28.599
going on. It seems to ebb and flow where you

409
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:31.799
get an email preparting to be from your minister, your

410
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:35.960
priest saying that you know the church is in need

411
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:38.920
of some funds, and this and that, and again it's

412
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:45.559
a scammer. And once the you know, the church finds

413
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.720
out about it, they'll send an email, they'll send notifications

414
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.960
and their bulletin and everything to let people know that

415
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:54.880
the scam is running around. But again, verify that by

416
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:57.759
you have the phone number to the church, you're you're

417
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:00.160
going to go there on Sunday or maybe Saturday, or

418
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:03.240
maybe you do daily if you're Catholic, maybe you do

419
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:05.880
daily mass. Talk to somebody at the church when you're

420
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:11.319
there and find out what's going on. There was the

421
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.960
jury duty scam that was going around saying it was

422
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:19.079
coming from the courthouse. Again authority. You're more apt to

423
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.880
believe when it's someone in authority, and a courthouse would

424
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:27.319
be someone in authority versus verifying it. Or with the

425
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.559
IRS scam. How you know a lot of people were

426
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.599
catching on to the IRS scam, and so then they

427
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.039
added another layer to it. If you don't pay these

428
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.960
back taxes or these fines, we're going to send an

429
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:44.759
arrest warrant out to you know, Phoenix police or Chandler Police,

430
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:48.240
you know, whatever town you lived in. And the next

431
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.839
phone call you got. They spoofed the name to say

432
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:57.359
Chandler Police Department or Phoenix Police Department, and they're people

433
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:01.279
of authority, and you're more you're war abolutely be Okay,

434
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:03.319
I believe this, you know. I don't want to go

435
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:08.640
to jail without actually pausing and thinking about the situation. Right,

436
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:10.960
Are they going to really give me a heads up

437
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:13.599
if they have a warrant out for my arrest? I

438
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:17.119
don't think so. But when you're in that fearful panic state,

439
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:26.039
you're not thinking rationally. Commitment and consistency. So here's have

440
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:27.920
you ever met a person that says one thing and

441
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:32.880
does another? And it's pretty annoying when people are inconsistent.

442
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.480
So personal consistency is a personality trait that's highly valued.

443
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:45.599
Let's see, many frauds, such as lottery or advanced fee

444
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:50.880
frauds ask potential victims to simply reply in order for

445
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:55.079
the forms to be processed. So this foster's commitment, which

446
00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:02.960
makes it easier to comply with other future requests. Scarcity

447
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:08.039
and urgency. When something's not easily available, people value and

448
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:13.640
desire it more, and scarcity also skews the perception of quality.

449
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:18.519
This is frequently manipulated by limiting the number of quantities,

450
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.920
are limiting the offer duration. So you get you get,

451
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:27.039
you get contacted, and maybe it's you know, uh they're

452
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:30.799
saying they're from a company or a store that that

453
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:36.519
you frequent that you frequently buy things from, and this

454
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:42.880
uh uh, and they say, quick, you've this this sale

455
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:45.599
ends in two hours. You need to get it. Or

456
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:52.839
there's only two product. There's only two items left, so

457
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:55.720
hurry get it now before they're all sold out. That's

458
00:31:55.880 --> 00:32:00.119
that's that type of you know, scarcity to get you

459
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:02.920
to oh my gosh, that's what I was looking for.

460
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.119
I need it. I got to do it now, you know,

461
00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:07.720
instead of going, okay, wait a minute, you know, let

462
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:12.279
me just check this out. And if this is actually

463
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:16.319
legit and the last two gets sold, guess what the

464
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:18.920
product to go on sale again in the future, right,

465
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:21.920
just pausing and taking the time to go back and

466
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:28.359
look at it. Urgency is frequently used in fishing scams.

467
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:32.160
They evoke fear as well as excitement. So we talked

468
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:35.519
about the grandparents scam with the fear but excitement as well.

469
00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:39.799
You know, you've won this brand new car right worth

470
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:44.279
seventy thousand dollars. You weren't necessarily in the market for

471
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:48.160
a car, or maybe you were, but you were only

472
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:50.880
looking at something worth thirty And now all of a sudden,

473
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:56.000
you've won this car and it's worth seventy thousand dollars,

474
00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:58.319
something that you weren't going to be able to afford.

475
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:04.759
So excitement and you're not thinking rationally, You're thinking, what

476
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.839
do I need to do to get this prize, this car?

477
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.279
And so you're in that and they are so good

478
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:13.880
at keeping you in that excited mood. What they say

479
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:16.240
to you when you interact with them, They're going to

480
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:19.720
keep you excited to get you to, you know, send

481
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:21.839
over the money. You got to pay taxes, you got

482
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:25.240
to pay fees. Oh wait, they're shipping charges. They just

483
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:28.200
keep coming back with more and more and more reasons

484
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:35.440
why they need your money. Let's see social proof and

485
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.599
social influence. We shape our world by looking to others,

486
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:43.640
seeing how they behave, what they believe in, what they do.

487
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:49.640
So fake reviews, fake testimonials, and fake recommendations can be

488
00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:59.119
very lucrative to frosters. And this there was a brushing scam,

489
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:06.599
I believe is what is called where you would get

490
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:11.360
and they usually used Amazon. They would all of a

491
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:15.559
sudden send you Chochke stuff you didn't even order it,

492
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:22.119
but then they would want you to post a review

493
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:27.639
about it and or did you get your order in time?

494
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:31.119
You know, yes, did you get this? And so everything's positive,

495
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:35.639
and it's a way. It's a way to boost online reviews,

496
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:41.760
which then show up on their fake website or Unfortunately,

497
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:45.280
some real companies do this in order to boost their reviews,

498
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.159
but a scammer can have a fake website and they

499
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:49.719
could use it to boost reviews, and you're the one

500
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:52.760
actually doing the review, and so it's showing up on

501
00:34:53.360 --> 00:35:03.239
their website to make their website look more legitimate. Let's

502
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:08.760
see social influence creating fake social media accounts. I think

503
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:14.119
we all have seen a lot of fake social media accounts.

504
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:17.679
We've talked about this. Like on Facebook, when you get

505
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.840
a friend request and you're like, wait a minute, I

506
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:23.000
thought I was already friends with them. Just go to

507
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:26.920
your friends and put the person's name in and it'll

508
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:28.880
come up and tell you whether you're friends with them

509
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:35.039
or not. Instead of just automatically accepting the friend request

510
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:39.920
and having it be a fake account. You know, they

511
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:43.719
can buy a lot of fake followers, which gives them

512
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:49.280
the appearance of a legitimate company online or a legitimate

513
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.719
person because they have five hundred followers or something like that.

514
00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:00.840
Let's see pyramid schemes. That's another one, targeting people that

515
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:04.480
work or socialize together with pyramid schemes that have been

516
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:08.800
found to be extremely useful. They only need to persuade

517
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:12.800
one person in that group and encourage them to talk

518
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.760
to their friends, exploiting the social influence to get the

519
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:20.320
friends then to be invest and be part of this.

520
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:26.920
They don't realize it's a pyramid scheme, but dishonesty and distraction,

521
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:32.760
and this one is interesting. Some scams work by telling

522
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:35.760
the victim they're getting involved in something illegal and this

523
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:45.000
is why the victim is getting a good deal. Scammers

524
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:48.639
will also focus the victim's attention on the size of

525
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:52.639
the reward they are getting, such as advanced fee frauds,

526
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:54.800
where the victim has promised a very large sum of

527
00:36:54.840 --> 00:37:01.960
money for some money laundering money mule. We've talked about

528
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:10.280
this before too. Scammers will want you to receive money

529
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.840
into one a year accounts and then send it out

530
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:18.760
to another account, or you get a package in the

531
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:21.280
mail and they want you to turn around and send

532
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:27.159
the package to another place. Both of those are considered

533
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:32.039
money mules. And recently, I believe in August, Brian was

534
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:35.320
the host of the Guest Host and he had Martin Hellmer,

535
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.400
a retired FBI agent, on and if you didn't watch it,

536
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:43.039
you can find it on our YouTube channel. I highly

537
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:45.679
suggest you go back and watch that one. It talks

538
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:50.639
about money mules where people unknowingly get involved in this.

539
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:54.199
They think they're doing someone a favor, the scammer who

540
00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:57.960
has now become their friend or someone very likable, and

541
00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:02.440
so they're helping them out and they're not thinking about

542
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:07.440
the process. The whole process is illegal and now you

543
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:11.920
have unknowingly been are now part of that illegal process.

544
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.239
They've actually had to go talk to people and tell

545
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:19.280
them that, explain to them the situation and that you

546
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.480
are part of an illegal process and you need to

547
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:26.480
stop doing this. You're going to get asked again, but

548
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:30.199
just don't do it. And on some occasions the people

549
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:33.880
have continued to do it. And this is how when

550
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.199
we've talked about the scammers or experts with this social engineering,

551
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:44.440
they have convinced people even when an FBI agent a

552
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:48.519
police officer has come and talked to them and told

553
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:51.760
them that this is an illegal process. If you continue

554
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:55.440
with this, you could be arrested. The scammer has gotten

555
00:38:55.480 --> 00:38:59.039
into this person's head and gotten them to not believe

556
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:02.639
law enforcement and only believe the scammer, and they continue

557
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:06.000
to do it multiple times. So this is where it

558
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.840
can get really scary, because nobody wants to be part

559
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:13.800
of an illegal process and have the possibility of being

560
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:21.519
arrested in going to jail. Let's see, let me get

561
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:26.079
some grooming. This is another one. A lot of times

562
00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:28.760
when we think about grooming, we think about the romance

563
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:33.320
scam or a pig butchering scam. And next week we're

564
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:37.519
going to have Aaron West she was on recently and

565
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:40.320
doctor Martina Dove back and the three of us are

566
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:43.239
going to do a deeper dive into pig butchering scams.

567
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:46.880
Grooming comes in to this and doctor Martina Dove is

568
00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.199
going to talk more about the grooming aspect of it.

569
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:53.000
But that's where the scammers will take their time and

570
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:59.559
groom someone to only believe the scammer and not believe

571
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:03.280
anybody else. And this happens a lot in romance scams.

572
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.079
So when the family members find out what's going on

573
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:10.920
and they talk to the person that's being groomed, you know,

574
00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.039
the person might say, Okay, yeah, I believe you. I'm

575
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:15.280
not going to communicate with them, and then five minutes

576
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:18.280
later the phone rings and they're communicating because they have,

577
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:23.599
in essence, been brainwashed to believe the scammer is the

578
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:29.079
one that is the only one that you should believe,

579
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:31.760
and don't talk to anybody else about this. This is

580
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:36.800
just between you and I. And I've talked to some

581
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.199
family members of some victims that and actually the most

582
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:43.519
recent one was it was a close friend of the

583
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:48.880
victim who had been going through this process with someone

584
00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:52.320
who she thought was the love of her life for

585
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:55.920
six years and she's still going through the process. She's

586
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:59.800
been planning the wedding, all of this stuff, and every

587
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:04.039
time she sends money, and it's the promise that it's

588
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:06.599
going to get the person home so then they can

589
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:10.400
get married and live happily, you know, the rest of

590
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:14.800
their lives. Something comes up and they can't get back

591
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:19.559
and they need more money. And so the longer somebody

592
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:24.400
is in this grooming process, it becomes so difficult to

593
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:28.840
an essence, break that spell that the scammer has over

594
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:33.960
the victim. And we're all susceptible to being groomed, so

595
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:37.119
don't think it's just somebody that you might say, oh,

596
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:42.039
well they're gullible. No, everybody is susceptible to being groomed,

597
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:50.519
all right, So those are our human factors, the majority

598
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:55.159
of them that scammers will exploit. It's social engineering, and

599
00:41:55.239 --> 00:42:00.920
they are experts at social engineering. Know a lot of people,

600
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:05.760
shouldn't say a lot of people and I used to

601
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:07.920
do this two years ago. You knew it was a

602
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:10.840
scammer and you played around with them to waste their time,

603
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:15.800
because they're wasting your time. Please be very, very very

604
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:18.440
careful with that. The best thing to do is if

605
00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:24.000
you've engaged, cut the cut the contact off, don't engage anymore,

606
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:27.199
or just don't engage from the start, because scammers have

607
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:30.760
gotten so good over the years they're experts in social engineering,

608
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:33.199
that they are going to trip you up before you

609
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:36.159
even realize that you've been tripped up, and then you

610
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.480
might have given away some personal information. So just be

611
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:42.519
very careful with that. If you want to play with

612
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:46.360
the scammers. There's a lot of YouTube videos out there

613
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:52.000
where these people can get into the scammer's computer system

614
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:56.480
and see things that are going on. They have a

615
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:59.360
lot more they're a lot more technological savvy than the

616
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:04.239
majority of us, and so they're professionals and what they

617
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:08.920
do in order to kind of reverse that. They are

618
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.960
kind of fun to watch though. So anyways, that's it

619
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.840
for today. Next week, as I said, we're going to

620
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:18.960
have Aaron West from Operation Shamrock and doctor Martina Dove

621
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:20.960
and we are going to do a deeper dive into

622
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:24.360
the pig butchering scams and we will be talking about

623
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:29.679
the grooming aspect and any other psychological aspects that the

624
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:34.039
scammers are going to exploit in a pig butchering scam.

625
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:39.159
And Aaron's going to talk about the pig butchering operations

626
00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:44.079
and the compounds that these big groups use in order

627
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:48.320
to carry out these pig butchering scams. So don't forget

628
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:51.360
go to our website at Roseadvocacy dot org. You'll find

629
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:55.039
links all of our social media channels, including YouTube where

630
00:43:55.079 --> 00:44:00.880
you can find all of the live the live shows,

631
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:04.719
and you'll find the reels on there as well, or

632
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:08.000
the shorts. I think they're called one of the two

633
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:11.679
and scroll down to the bottom of the homepage. You'll

634
00:44:11.719 --> 00:44:14.199
see where you can sign up for our emailed newsletter

635
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:18.360
or and or our mailed newsletter and with our emailed

636
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:21.880
newsletter every Tuesday morning at nine point fifteen, and this

637
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:23.639
week it's going to come out in about thirty minutes,

638
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:26.920
there's a tip Tuesday email that's going to come out again.

639
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:31.760
This is to reinforce scam prevention as a habit. Develop

640
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:35.880
your healthy skepticism because you will be contacted and you

641
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:40.079
want to have the tools necessary to recognize the scam

642
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:47.679
and avoid interacting with the scammer. Our goal is to

643
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:50.400
get you to do that at the contact. So you

644
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.639
are not going to the bank to get money out,

645
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:56.840
you are not getting on your computer to transfer money,

646
00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:59.840
you're not going to buy gift cards. We don't want

647
00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:02.760
you to get that far in the process. We want

648
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.360
you to recognize it at the contact and stop it

649
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:08.159
right there. And the best way to do that is

650
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:14.480
this education, reoccurring reminders to keep scam prevention top of mind.

651
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.119
So we'll see you next week. Take care.

652
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:22.039
Well, that's all the knowledge for this episode. June in

653
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:26.320
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time, on KFOURHD radio

654
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:31.159
at kfoorahd dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge,

655
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:34.800
so you have the power to make scam protection your

656
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:38.599
healthy habit and until then, feel free to reach out

657
00:45:38.599 --> 00:45:41.199
to Joyce and let's talk about scams