WEBVTT
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This program is designed to provide general information with regards
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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
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professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
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of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
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The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational
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purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional
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legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted
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sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the
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elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to
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a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen
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show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their
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loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific time on
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K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and
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her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips on
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how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And now
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here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.
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Good morning, everybody, my name is Brian Watson. I'm a
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community outreach specialist for Rose Resources Outreach to safeguard the elderly.
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Joyce is going to be back next week, so appreciate
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you all watching and listening to our radio show while
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Joyce has been out for a few weeks, and I
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really appreciate the opportunity, So thank you for tuning in
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to Let's talk about scams. This week, we have a
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guest who's going to share her scam experience, and so
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we've titled this show My Almost Scam Experience because it's
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a pretty scary story but is a very positive ending
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and there's a lot of lessons to be learned. So
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this week's guest is Rachel Mullis. She was contacted by
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a real life scammer here in the United States and
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they are very believable and they had her on the
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path to stealing her money. So she's going to share
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her story today. She's going to talk about the warning
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signs and what eventually changed her mind. And after read
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reading her story that she shared with me, it's amazing
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that she didn't fall for it, because like ninety nine
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percent of people could have fallen for this one. It
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was done extremely well. So let's bring Rachel on. Hello,
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Good morning, Rachel, how are you doing this morning?
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Hi Brian, good thanks thanks for having me.
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So the first thing I'm just going to say off
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the top is I really appreciate you sharing your story.
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The easiest thing would be to not tell anybody, because
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you know, there's this this fear like, oh, I'm I
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made a mistake and I'm you know, it's there's a
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level of embarrassment sometimes, but we're all into no victim
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shaming and in this case, you were not a victim.
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You won, you didn't fall for the scam, and you're
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so brave to tell your story, and thank you very much.
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Yeah, sure, my pleasure. I will say that's real.
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I've known Rachel's husband for a long time and he
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had told me what had happened, and I listened and
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I said, do you think she'd be willing to share
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her story on the Let's Talk About Scams podcast radio show?
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And her husband said, let me ask, and then right
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away he got back to me and said, she'll do it.
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So we finally found a date that worked and today
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we're going to tell the story. So, Rachel, how are
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you contacted with this scam. How did it all start?
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You know, It's just in the middle of the day.
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We have two kids, which we homeschool, and I was
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home and busy with them, and the phone ring and
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the caller, I d said the Pma County Sheriff's Department.
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So immediately you kind of jump to worst case scenario,
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is something wrong with my husband, my parents, you know,
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what's going on? So I answered the phone and and they.
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Were there, so and what did uh? How what did
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this person say?
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You know, he just identified himself as a police officer.
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He gave me his badge number. He asked me to
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double check the phone number, which maybe that was kind
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of weird, but just said, you know, you can see
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that this is the Pema County Sheriff's Department. You can
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you know, google it and make sure this is the
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right number, which it was, and just told me, you know,
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he was he was calling on behalf of or because
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I had mystery duty federal jury duty, and he was
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calling to follow up with that.
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How did you describe his tone, his voice, his attitude.
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Yeah, I mean I just I would say, like a
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stereotypical police officer. I mean, he seemed very calm, and confident.
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You know, he spoke English, So I think I had
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this idea maybe that all scammers have, you know, are
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from another country. But his English was perfect, and yeah,
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I believed him that he was a police officer.
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So and then so he claimed you didn't show up
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for jury duty? What what was going to be the
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next step?
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Well, I mean, of course, I apologized. I didn't remember
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ever getting a jury duty summons in the mail. He
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told me that this was for federal jury duty, and
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so I had signed the letter had come certified mail,
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and so I thought, I think I would remember a
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certain letter in the mailbox. But he told me the
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date that it was signed on, you know, it was
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several months earlier. And so I went and looked in
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my calendar and I thought, well, I was home that day.
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Maybe I signed it and I forgot. I don't know,
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we have a lot of stuff going on. It seems
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weird that I would forget, but maybe I did, you know.
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So I act, I asked if I could just have
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a minute. I went down stairs to my desk and
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I was just rifling through all my old papers, like
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do I have a jury duty summons that I missed?
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You know?
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But I didn't find anything. So I went back up
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there and I told him and it didn't think i'd
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ever received it. And he said, occasionally what happens is
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like if my husband was home, he could have signed
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for it, and maybe that's what happened. And then he
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just forgot to give me the jury duty summons.
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So he did. Did he say there was a warrant
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out for your arrest?
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He did, so that kind of came a little bit later,
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but he did say that the judge so, and I
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guess I had been summoned like two days before. He
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called me and he said the judge, and he gave
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me her name and I wrote down. But she was
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a real judge in p mc County. She uh is
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a real stickler for people that misstery duty. And so
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she had called out my name twice and I didn't respond.
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So there were now two warrants out for my arrest.
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One was for failure to appear in court and the
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other one was for contempt of court.
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Wow. Now he also had your correct home address? Is
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that right?
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Yes? He did. He verified it with a certified mail.
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He said, you know what, this is the address that
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we have where the certified mail, Uh, where it was
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signed and delivered? And is this your correct address? And
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I said, well, yeah, it was my right address.
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Wow.
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So right off the top the caller I D says
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p MC County Share Department and they have your correct address.
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So it really builds the credibility of their scam. And
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at that point you were, you were believing it one
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hundred percent.
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You know, it just seems so weird. I mean, I
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think the fact that there would be a warrant out
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for my arrest for missing jury duty for the first
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time in my whole life. I mean, I have been
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I've served on jury's before. It seemed extreme to me.
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But I think the thing that was convincing to me
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is that he was a police officer. And I just
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think for myself, like I have no reason not to
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trust a police officer, you know, I just thought he must.
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He reassured me several times that he's done this many
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times before, and he knows that it can be, you know,
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surprising when people find out what the consequences are for
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missing jury duty, and I think I just I don't know,
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I just trusted him, so I thought he.
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Was At a certain point, did did you ask to
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speak to your husband.
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I did, yes, so you know that part kind of
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came after he so I. So, he said, because I
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had this warrant out for my arrest, I had two options.
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Basically I had to stay on the phone with him,
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and I could post bail. Essentially, so one ticket had
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a fine of five thousand dollars and another ticket had
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a fine of two thousand dollars. And so if I
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posted bail and then I showed up at my court
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date to like explain why I'm ass tery duty, then
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I would get the money back. But if I were
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to hang up the phone with him at any point,
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he said, then it's basically like I'm denying bail or
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I'm I'm refusing to cooperate with the police. So at
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that point then the police would be dispatched to my
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house to arrest me. And so he just I asked
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if I could hang up the phone to call my
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husband and just talk this over with him, because it
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felt so bizarre and now I owe seven thousand dollars,
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you know, to post bail, and he the scammer, basically
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said no, I cannot contact my husband. And I said, well,
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why can't I call him? I don't understand, and he said, well,
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because we need to make sure that you know, sometimes
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people like in a in a case like say I
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knew what case I was going to be on, which
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I didn't, but there could be people there that would
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intimidate the jurors, you know. And so if they if
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they had intimidated me into not showing up to jury
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duty because they knew I don't know somehow how I
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would vote or something like that, then my husband then
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would now be a part of the crime, of the
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of the crime, I guess, and there would be a
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warrant out for his rest as well. So it doesn't
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make like a whole lot of sense, but he was
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very confident that this is how it works. Like if
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I tell my husband now he is also complicit in
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me missing jury duty, or maybe he's the one that
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pressured me to miss jury duty, and so he is
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going to be arrested too. So it kind of felt,
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it felt confusing, like it just seemed a spiral out
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of control very quickly. But he did always have answers
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for everything I brought up. He knew what to say.
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And again, I have never I'd never been arrested. I've
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never been in trouble with the law. I thought maybe
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this was on me, like I was the ignorant one
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that I didn't understand how this worked. Now now I
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see clearly that he you know, he was taking advantage
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of me. But that was the that was how it
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played out.
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Well, and that's the thing.
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You You raised a lot of concerns, You raised a
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lot of questions, but he had an answer for everything.
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And then you also said that he.
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Brought up the fact that if both you and your
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husband went to jail, that Child Protective Services would have
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to take your kids. How did that come up in
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the conversation.
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Well, then he said, he said, also, he goes, I
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have to ask, since is anyone else at home with you?
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And I said, well, we have our children are here,
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and he said, well, he goes. You know, ma'am, I
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hate to tell you this, but there have been instances
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I know of where both the husband and wife have
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gone to jail and then DPS or CPS has coming
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and had to take the children because where else where
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else are they going to go if both the parents
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are in jail. And I think that at that point,
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I mean, this has been building. I mean this like
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a three hour ordeal. Maybe I was very long.
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It was exhausted, right, So.
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It's kind of been building and building, building up until
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this point, and I think at this point now I'm
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feeling very overwhelmed, like I do not understand what is happening.
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Now they're saying my husband could go to jail, my
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kids could go to deep CPS, and I'm all because
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I missed jury duty. And it just seemed like outlandish.
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But again, he said he was a police officer, and
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I felt like he was convincing me that I just
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didn't understand these things, you know, and he was right,
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He's done it many times, you know.
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So did you end up talking to more than one caller?
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I did. I think he was honestly getting really frustrated
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with me because I kept like asking him to explain
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it better. It just again, it just seemed so outlandish
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that all this was happening because I missed jury duty.
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And so he said, well, would you like to speak
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to my supervisor? And I said I think I would. Yeah,
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So he puts like, I don't know his supervisor on
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the phone. And he was a really nice guy too.
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He was he was friendly but also very reassuring. Like, oh,