Feb. 10, 2026

My almost scam experience

My almost scam experience
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This week’s guest is Rachel Mullis. She was contacted by a real-life scammer and was on the path to losing money. She will share her story, what warning signs changed her mind, and she will offer advice to anyone who is contacted by a scammer.

Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.

WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,

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professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services

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of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational

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purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional

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legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted

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sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the

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elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to

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a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen

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show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their

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loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific time on

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K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and

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her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips on

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how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And now

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here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.

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Good morning, everybody, my name is Brian Watson. I'm a

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community outreach specialist for Rose Resources Outreach to safeguard the elderly.

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Joyce is going to be back next week, so appreciate

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you all watching and listening to our radio show while

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Joyce has been out for a few weeks, and I

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really appreciate the opportunity, So thank you for tuning in

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to Let's talk about scams. This week, we have a

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guest who's going to share her scam experience, and so

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we've titled this show My Almost Scam Experience because it's

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a pretty scary story but is a very positive ending

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and there's a lot of lessons to be learned. So

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this week's guest is Rachel Mullis. She was contacted by

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a real life scammer here in the United States and

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they are very believable and they had her on the

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path to stealing her money. So she's going to share

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her story today. She's going to talk about the warning

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signs and what eventually changed her mind. And after read

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reading her story that she shared with me, it's amazing

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that she didn't fall for it, because like ninety nine

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percent of people could have fallen for this one. It

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was done extremely well. So let's bring Rachel on. Hello,

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Good morning, Rachel, how are you doing this morning?

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Hi Brian, good thanks thanks for having me.

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So the first thing I'm just going to say off

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the top is I really appreciate you sharing your story.

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The easiest thing would be to not tell anybody, because

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you know, there's this this fear like, oh, I'm I

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made a mistake and I'm you know, it's there's a

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level of embarrassment sometimes, but we're all into no victim

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shaming and in this case, you were not a victim.

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You won, you didn't fall for the scam, and you're

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so brave to tell your story, and thank you very much.

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Yeah, sure, my pleasure. I will say that's real.

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I've known Rachel's husband for a long time and he

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had told me what had happened, and I listened and

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I said, do you think she'd be willing to share

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her story on the Let's Talk About Scams podcast radio show?

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And her husband said, let me ask, and then right

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away he got back to me and said, she'll do it.

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So we finally found a date that worked and today

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we're going to tell the story. So, Rachel, how are

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you contacted with this scam. How did it all start?

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You know, It's just in the middle of the day.

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We have two kids, which we homeschool, and I was

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home and busy with them, and the phone ring and

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the caller, I d said the Pma County Sheriff's Department.

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So immediately you kind of jump to worst case scenario,

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is something wrong with my husband, my parents, you know,

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what's going on? So I answered the phone and and they.

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Were there, so and what did uh? How what did

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this person say?

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You know, he just identified himself as a police officer.

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He gave me his badge number. He asked me to

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double check the phone number, which maybe that was kind

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of weird, but just said, you know, you can see

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that this is the Pema County Sheriff's Department. You can

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you know, google it and make sure this is the

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right number, which it was, and just told me, you know,

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he was he was calling on behalf of or because

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I had mystery duty federal jury duty, and he was

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calling to follow up with that.

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How did you describe his tone, his voice, his attitude.

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Yeah, I mean I just I would say, like a

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stereotypical police officer. I mean, he seemed very calm, and confident.

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You know, he spoke English, So I think I had

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this idea maybe that all scammers have, you know, are

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from another country. But his English was perfect, and yeah,

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I believed him that he was a police officer.

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So and then so he claimed you didn't show up

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for jury duty? What what was going to be the

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next step?

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Well, I mean, of course, I apologized. I didn't remember

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ever getting a jury duty summons in the mail. He

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told me that this was for federal jury duty, and

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so I had signed the letter had come certified mail,

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and so I thought, I think I would remember a

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certain letter in the mailbox. But he told me the

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date that it was signed on, you know, it was

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several months earlier. And so I went and looked in

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my calendar and I thought, well, I was home that day.

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Maybe I signed it and I forgot. I don't know,

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we have a lot of stuff going on. It seems

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weird that I would forget, but maybe I did, you know.

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So I act, I asked if I could just have

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a minute. I went down stairs to my desk and

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I was just rifling through all my old papers, like

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do I have a jury duty summons that I missed?

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You know?

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But I didn't find anything. So I went back up

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there and I told him and it didn't think i'd

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ever received it. And he said, occasionally what happens is

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like if my husband was home, he could have signed

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for it, and maybe that's what happened. And then he

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just forgot to give me the jury duty summons.

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So he did. Did he say there was a warrant

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out for your arrest?

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He did, so that kind of came a little bit later,

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but he did say that the judge so, and I

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guess I had been summoned like two days before. He

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called me and he said the judge, and he gave

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me her name and I wrote down. But she was

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a real judge in p mc County. She uh is

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a real stickler for people that misstery duty. And so

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she had called out my name twice and I didn't respond.

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So there were now two warrants out for my arrest.

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One was for failure to appear in court and the

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other one was for contempt of court.

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Wow. Now he also had your correct home address? Is

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that right?

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Yes? He did. He verified it with a certified mail.

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He said, you know what, this is the address that

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we have where the certified mail, Uh, where it was

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signed and delivered? And is this your correct address? And

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I said, well, yeah, it was my right address.

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Wow.

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So right off the top the caller I D says

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p MC County Share Department and they have your correct address.

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So it really builds the credibility of their scam. And

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at that point you were, you were believing it one

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hundred percent.

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You know, it just seems so weird. I mean, I

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think the fact that there would be a warrant out

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for my arrest for missing jury duty for the first

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time in my whole life. I mean, I have been

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I've served on jury's before. It seemed extreme to me.

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But I think the thing that was convincing to me

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is that he was a police officer. And I just

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think for myself, like I have no reason not to

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trust a police officer, you know, I just thought he must.

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He reassured me several times that he's done this many

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times before, and he knows that it can be, you know,

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surprising when people find out what the consequences are for

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missing jury duty, and I think I just I don't know,

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I just trusted him, so I thought he.

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Was At a certain point, did did you ask to

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speak to your husband.

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I did, yes, so you know that part kind of

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came after he so I. So, he said, because I

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had this warrant out for my arrest, I had two options.

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Basically I had to stay on the phone with him,

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and I could post bail. Essentially, so one ticket had

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a fine of five thousand dollars and another ticket had

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a fine of two thousand dollars. And so if I

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posted bail and then I showed up at my court

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date to like explain why I'm ass tery duty, then

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I would get the money back. But if I were

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to hang up the phone with him at any point,

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he said, then it's basically like I'm denying bail or

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I'm I'm refusing to cooperate with the police. So at

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that point then the police would be dispatched to my

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house to arrest me. And so he just I asked

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if I could hang up the phone to call my

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husband and just talk this over with him, because it

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felt so bizarre and now I owe seven thousand dollars,

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you know, to post bail, and he the scammer, basically

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said no, I cannot contact my husband. And I said, well,

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why can't I call him? I don't understand, and he said, well,

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because we need to make sure that you know, sometimes

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people like in a in a case like say I

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knew what case I was going to be on, which

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I didn't, but there could be people there that would

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intimidate the jurors, you know. And so if they if

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they had intimidated me into not showing up to jury

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duty because they knew I don't know somehow how I

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would vote or something like that, then my husband then

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would now be a part of the crime, of the

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of the crime, I guess, and there would be a

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warrant out for his rest as well. So it doesn't

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make like a whole lot of sense, but he was

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very confident that this is how it works. Like if

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I tell my husband now he is also complicit in

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me missing jury duty, or maybe he's the one that

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pressured me to miss jury duty, and so he is

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going to be arrested too. So it kind of felt,

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it felt confusing, like it just seemed a spiral out

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of control very quickly. But he did always have answers

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for everything I brought up. He knew what to say.

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And again, I have never I'd never been arrested. I've

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never been in trouble with the law. I thought maybe

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this was on me, like I was the ignorant one

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that I didn't understand how this worked. Now now I

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see clearly that he you know, he was taking advantage

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of me. But that was the that was how it

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played out.

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Well, and that's the thing.

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You You raised a lot of concerns, You raised a

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lot of questions, but he had an answer for everything.

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And then you also said that he.

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Brought up the fact that if both you and your

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husband went to jail, that Child Protective Services would have

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to take your kids. How did that come up in

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the conversation.

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Well, then he said, he said, also, he goes, I

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have to ask, since is anyone else at home with you?

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And I said, well, we have our children are here,

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and he said, well, he goes. You know, ma'am, I

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hate to tell you this, but there have been instances

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I know of where both the husband and wife have

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gone to jail and then DPS or CPS has coming

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and had to take the children because where else where

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else are they going to go if both the parents

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are in jail. And I think that at that point,

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I mean, this has been building. I mean this like

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a three hour ordeal. Maybe I was very long.

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It was exhausted, right, So.

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It's kind of been building and building, building up until

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this point, and I think at this point now I'm

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feeling very overwhelmed, like I do not understand what is happening.

227
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Now they're saying my husband could go to jail, my

228
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:14.720
kids could go to deep CPS, and I'm all because

229
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I missed jury duty. And it just seemed like outlandish.

230
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But again, he said he was a police officer, and

231
00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:27.799
I felt like he was convincing me that I just

232
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didn't understand these things, you know, and he was right,

233
00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:32.559
He's done it many times, you know.

234
00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:38.000
So did you end up talking to more than one caller?

235
00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:42.559
I did. I think he was honestly getting really frustrated

236
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:46.679
with me because I kept like asking him to explain

237
00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:52.279
it better. It just again, it just seemed so outlandish

238
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that all this was happening because I missed jury duty.

239
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And so he said, well, would you like to speak

240
00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:01.639
to my supervisor? And I said I think I would. Yeah,

241
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.879
So he puts like, I don't know his supervisor on

242
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:06.720
the phone. And he was a really nice guy too.

243
00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.720
He was he was friendly but also very reassuring. Like, oh,

244
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I understand. This does seem crazy, doesn't it, Rachel? You know,

245
00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:17.440
but I promise you this is normal. This is what happens.

246
00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:20.759
And then he kind of took me through the rest

247
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:22.080
of the ordeal.

248
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:27.159
So so then now they want the money. How you're

249
00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.240
finding yourself driving to go pay money?

250
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:30.600
How did what happened next?

251
00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.039
Oh my gosh, I still can't believe I did this.

252
00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:38.600
Watch this is what happened. So so he told me, like,

253
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.360
you know, he said, I'm going to stay on the

254
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.039
phone with you. Well, first of all, he asked what

255
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:47.120
kind of car I drove and and how many miles

256
00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:49.960
were on it. So I asked again, like, why do

257
00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:51.679
you need to know this? This doesn't make sense to me.

258
00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:53.840
And he said, well, you know how in jury due

259
00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:57.559
do you get reimbursed for mileage? Which is true. He said,

260
00:14:57.600 --> 00:14:59.919
you get reimbursed for mileage for this kind of thing.

261
00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.159
And I was like, well, I said, I don't feel

262
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.639
comfortable giving you that information. So I said, how do

263
00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.519
I know? I said, you know, I'm going to go

264
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.240
get seven thousand dollars out of the bank, and you

265
00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:15.360
know what kind of car I drive and where I'm going?

266
00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:17.399
How do I know you're not going to rob me,

267
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.159
you know, And he said, oh, ha ha, A good point.

268
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.399
He goes, I've never had anyone say that before he goes,

269
00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.240
you don't have to give me your your type of car,

270
00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:30.200
and so I was like, okay. So anyway, so he

271
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.080
stayed on the phone with me the whole way I

272
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.279
drove to the bank. He told me when I got

273
00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:38.480
there to to the teller. I was not to talk.

274
00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:41.000
I was not to tell the teller anything about what

275
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:45.360
was going on because then she too would be complicit

276
00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:48.759
and could possibly go to jail. And so I was

277
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.799
to go in I was supposed to. He was on

278
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.799
speaker phone while I drove because he insisted on being safe, right,

279
00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:58.360
so hands free, So he just wanted to be on

280
00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:04.200
speakerphone in the car, which she was. And then same

281
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.000
thing at the bank, and then uh, I do think

282
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:10.120
the teller probably could tell I was really stressed. I

283
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.200
do think she was kind of trying to ask me

284
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:17.919
some questions, but I just played it cool. You know. Again,

285
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.960
this now we're probably at about I would say like

286
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:25.080
the two to three out two. I don't know the

287
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.440
whole thing took at least I would say three and

288
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:29.279
a half hours, so we're probably at like the two

289
00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:31.039
hour mark, I don't know, two and a half hour

290
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:33.919
work of just being on the phone with this guy

291
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:39.320
and just you can't even really think, you know. I mean,

292
00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:45.279
they're just constantly talking, constantly giving you directions. And I

293
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:50.360
think for me that was that kind of helped helped

294
00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:53.759
them because I wasn't even able really to process. I

295
00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:56.679
was trying to think logically about it all, but there

296
00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.759
wasn't a lot of time too, you know. So anyway,

297
00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:02.320
so I got the money out of the bank. He

298
00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:05.599
told me where to deposit it. He said, they have

299
00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:07.880
these like bail he had a funny name for it,

300
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.960
but basically a bail collection office all over town. So

301
00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:16.839
he asked me where, like he told me one that

302
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.559
was going to was close to my house and it

303
00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:22.960
was at the Safeway in the Safeway shopping center. And

304
00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:25.640
so I thought, okay, well, I've never noticed a bail

305
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:27.559
collection office, but I didn't know what they looked like.

306
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:32.960
Either had no idea. So I got to the Safeway

307
00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:37.160
and he said where or I said, Okay, I'm here,

308
00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:38.519
Like where do I go? I thought it was the

309
00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:41.319
bank or something in the Safeway And then he told

310
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:45.400
me it was the coin star machine, and I thought,

311
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:49.279
the coinstar machine. What in the world this again, this

312
00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:53.279
does not make sense, like why would I why would

313
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:58.440
they collect bail in a coinstar machine? And so he

314
00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:04.519
said again that it was to protect to give protect

315
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.240
people's privacy and make them so it's not as embarrassing,

316
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.279
like if they obail bail for something, they can just

317
00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:14.599
you know, do it this way and nobody has to know.

318
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:18.319
And then he said I would be given my own

319
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.119
account number to put the money in, and then it

320
00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:23.480
would I would get because it was in my account,

321
00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.160
I would get it back. That's how they would know

322
00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:28.119
it was mine, and I would get it back after

323
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:31.359
I showed up to court. So I will say too,

324
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.839
I off I several times I thought about just driving

325
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.480
straight to the police station because it's not too far

326
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:42.319
from there, And every time I brought it up, he said,

327
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:44.680
well you can, but they're going to arrest you as

328
00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:45.759
soon as you walk in there.

329
00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:46.759
Wow.

330
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:51.160
And so again it was just like so much kind

331
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:55.599
of fear and manipulation and just you know, I don't know.

332
00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.640
My head was just spinning and thinking like what is happening?

333
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:05.079
Like a movie, right, right? So right, you walk into

334
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:09.400
the grocery store with seven thousand dollars and you're told

335
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:12.279
to go go to the coinstar machine. Did they give

336
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.680
you an account number or a QR code?

337
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:19.680
They give me an account number, okay for me to

338
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:20.559
put the money in.

339
00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:25.160
So and then you got all the way to the machine.

340
00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:26.400
I did.

341
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:26.839
I was.

342
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:31.279
I was so nervous, like I just I just kept thinking,

343
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.599
he knows where I am, he knows I have cash.

344
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:37.759
But again, you know, again, it's just this weird dichotomy

345
00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:39.720
kind of Oh but he's a police officer, and I'm

346
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.200
supposed to trust police officers. Like a police officer wouldn't

347
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.680
do anything, you know, I wouldn't try to steal my money,

348
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.640
you know. So anyway, So yeah, so I got there

349
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.279
and I started putting in the account number or whatever,

350
00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:58.319
and the main screen that pops up says, law enforcement

351
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:01.880
will never ask you to depose money in a Coinstar machine.

352
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.279
And so I read that out loud to him. I said,

353
00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:06.720
but wait, it says right here, you will never ask

354
00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.160
me to do this, And he said, oh, well, that's

355
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:11.440
just you know, I don't even remember, but he had

356
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.079
some kind of thing like just to that's for other situations.

357
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:19.359
Not this situation. This situation is fine, you know, And

358
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:25.119
so I started, I like stood there forever, like I

359
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:29.240
just yeah, I just stood there. And I said to him,

360
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:31.680
I said, how do I know this isn't a scam.

361
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:33.960
This feels so much like a scam. And he said, well,

362
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.319
I've given you my name too. He goes look up

363
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.559
my name, you know, And so I googled his name

364
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:40.200
and he is a It was the name of a

365
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.359
Pima County officer. And so I thought, again, just this

366
00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:48.680
like war in my head of like this seems so wrong,

367
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.039
but yet I don't know he's telling me that he's

368
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.000
a police officer. So I finally I just said, you know,

369
00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.599
I cannot do this. I am going to take my

370
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.200
chances and go to the police station if there really

371
00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.319
is a warrant out for my arrest, Like every red

372
00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:09.119
flag is going off in my brain and I have

373
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.759
to pay attention to that. I can't just keep denying

374
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:17.119
this and trusting you. So I said, I'm gonna take

375
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:18.880
my chances. I'm going to go to the police station

376
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.160
and talk to them directly. And he got so mad.

377
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.480
He started swearing. It was like a light switched. He

378
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:29.279
started swearing at me. He called me all kinds of names,

379
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:31.640
and I just got scared and I hung up the phone,

380
00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:35.960
and I thought, well, clearly he was not a police officer.

381
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.799
You know, now if there was any doubt, that doubt

382
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:43.200
is gone. And so I just like ran to my

383
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:49.200
car essentially and locked all the doors and started driving home,

384
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.480
you know, And I was say, I did call. I

385
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.640
called my husband. He was not available right then, but

386
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:58.680
I so I called our friends whose husband was a

387
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:02.799
police officer, and I just told him the story. And

388
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.319
he was very much like, that was a scam. You know,

389
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:09.759
we do not there is if you ever missed tree duty.

390
00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:12.880
They will notify you by mail, which I didn't know.

391
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:15.839
They will not ever send a police officer to your

392
00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:19.640
house for missing Jerry duty. And the fine, if there

393
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.160
even is a fine, the fine is always less than

394
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:25.039
five hundred dollars. It would never be like seven thousand dollars.

395
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.519
So don't quote me on the fine part. But I

396
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:32.480
know for sure they'll let you know by mail. A

397
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:37.119
police officer won't come and arrest you. So he was reassuring.

398
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.119
I gave him the information of what had happened, and

399
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.440
I had taken like a screenshot of the coinstar machine

400
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.079
that had my account on it, you know, or the

401
00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:51.680
account number I was sending the money to. So I

402
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:54.400
gave him all of that information and then, you know,

403
00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:56.000
and that was kind of the end of it.

404
00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:01.880
So wow, think about this. Understand why this scammer was

405
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:08.200
so upset because he had devoted yeah to plus three

406
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:13.400
hours and he could almost feel that seven thousand dollars

407
00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:17.519
in his hands, and you bailed out at the last

408
00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:23.000
minute for a variety of reasons that Do you think

409
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:26.559
that sign on the screen was the final thing that

410
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:31.240
changed your mind or was just a culmination of multiple things.

411
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:31.839
Well?

412
00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:34.440
Probably I think that was like the straw that broke

413
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:36.200
the camel's back, you know. I mean I just think

414
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.000
I'm so glad that was there. Had that not been there,

415
00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:41.400
I might have gone ahead and done it, you know.

416
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.799
But again, it was just another red flag, like this

417
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:46.240
does not make sense, you know.

418
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:50.920
So, and were you on the phone the entire time.

419
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:52.160
With him the entire time?

420
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.000
Yeah, So he'd never let.

421
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:59.440
You, you know, catch your breath, you know, take a pause,

422
00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.039
because you know, one of the big things that we

423
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:06.599
have at Rose is we have an infographic that's called

424
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.039
the anatomy of a anatomy of a scam, and it's

425
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:14.599
three parts. It talks about you're contacted out of the blue.

426
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:17.240
In your case, Rachel, you've got a phone call at home.

427
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.960
You're given a compelling reason to act. In this case,

428
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:25.160
you miss jury duty, you owe money, and then then

429
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:27.279
they always want money. So in this case, they told

430
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:29.680
you to withdraw money from your bank account and go

431
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:34.440
down to a Coinstar account at the grocery store. You

432
00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:36.400
hit all three and then the thing we show in

433
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:43.079
the middle is urgency. You know, he didn't say pay

434
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:45.480
this money, but do it within the next three days.

435
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:48.920
He wanted to have you do it immediately. And the

436
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.400
reason why they do that is so that you don't

437
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:54.640
get to talk to a husband, a friend, or in

438
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.759
this case, you know a police officer that you know

439
00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:01.240
in town. It's absolutely amazing. Now, Well, the thing I

440
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.119
just caught you saying, it really caught my attention. When

441
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:06.680
you went out to the parking lot, you locked the

442
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:08.440
doors to your car and you mentioned that.

443
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.599
Why, Well, because, like I said.

444
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:13.799
I felt really scared that they were watching me at

445
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:17.720
the grocery store waiting and if I don't know if

446
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:19.839
that was logical if they were in town. I know,

447
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:22.799
most scammers do tend to be out of town, you know,

448
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.400
in these big scam centers or things like that. But yeah,

449
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:30.039
I just I felt vulnerable. I think.

450
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:36.680
That's absolutely They knew your home address, they knew which

451
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.480
story you're going to, so they literally could have had

452
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:46.000
you under surveillance, and especially when you didn't follow through

453
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.039
at their commands, they may have just changed their minds

454
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:54.759
and just did a robbery. So that's absolutely scary. Now

455
00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:58.920
looking back now with the hindsight of time and not

456
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:02.480
have being on the phone them, what were the warning

457
00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:06.400
signs now that you look back that jump out at you.

458
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:11.039
Yeah, you know, I think like not being able to

459
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:14.160
tell anyone, you know, that should have been a that

460
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:15.920
should have been a huge red flag, and it was,

461
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.799
but it should have been I wish I would have

462
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:21.839
paid attention to that more and just been like, of

463
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:23.599
course I'm talking to my husband, of course I'm going

464
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:25.720
to call a friend, I'm gonna check with my police

465
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:30.720
officer friend or you know. Yeah, so I think again,

466
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:33.160
you know, it's if that idea I think of like

467
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.359
a you know, like a lion hunting herd of antelope.

468
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.680
Let's say, like they always drive the one off by themselves, right,

469
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:45.039
because the one that's by themselves is easier to get to,

470
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:49.160
you know. And so when scammers, you know, can separate

471
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:55.039
you from whoever my children, my husband, my family, my friends,

472
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.599
you're just way more vulnerable. So I would say that

473
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:01.880
that was a big red flag looking back, that I

474
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:04.279
wish I just would have. You know, my husband too,

475
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:06.079
he was like, I would have gone to jail with you.

476
00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:08.039
It was totally fine. I would have gone to jail.

477
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:11.799
Oh what a what a good guy.

478
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.960
Now, Rachel, Have you shared this story with your family

479
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:15.519
and friends?

480
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:16.079
Yeah?

481
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:22.039
I have, Yeah, and that and that's important because you know,

482
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:25.240
a lot of times when something like this happens to someone,

483
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:30.200
they tend to just clam up and and don't share it.

484
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.400
It is important that you you share it with others

485
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.759
because that's the only way we're going to stop these scammers.

486
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.039
They're not going anywhere anytime soon. And that's why you

487
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.759
sharing your story today. And let's talk about scams. Someone's

488
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:46.480
going to watch this and they're going to get that

489
00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:49.759
Jerry scam call and they're going to say.

490
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.599
Uh uh uh huh, that's not right. But this one

491
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:54.279
was executed very well.

492
00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:01.720
I mean, I'm actually kind of impressed, you know, in

493
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:05.240
a way that they had an answer for everything. And

494
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:08.039
they've obviously used this scam before. You weren't the first

495
00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:12.920
person that they called no, And so it's again thank

496
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:17.440
you for sharing your story. What is what advice would

497
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:22.440
you have for people out there that when when it

498
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:25.160
comes to something like this, you've gone through it, what's

499
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:25.759
your advice?

500
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:27.680
You know?

501
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.079
I think I would just say to trust your instincts,

502
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.160
you know. I mean I think a lot of times

503
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:33.200
that is correct.

504
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:33.599
You know.

505
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:38.559
We we kind of sense sometimes if we're in danger

506
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:42.720
or we have a feeling like this isn't quite right,

507
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:46.000
you know, And I think I would trust that. I

508
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:48.200
would go with your gut if you feel it's not right,

509
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:53.200
I would. I would. I would listen to that, you know,

510
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.759
and and not discount that right.

511
00:28:57.839 --> 00:28:59.799
No, And that's important and thank you. You know what,

512
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.960
when I do presentations and I tell people, if you

513
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:08.240
get on the phone with someone, it's okay to lie

514
00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:13.480
to them, and because they're lying to you, so I

515
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:19.119
always say you can lie to the scammer. So all

516
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:21.279
of us need to have a lie in the back

517
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:24.200
of our mind. That we can use and just almost

518
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:27.240
practice it. Just say, you know what, I got someone

519
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:31.079
at the door, I got food on the stove, I

520
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:36.920
have company right now, I have a doctor's appointment. And

521
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:40.920
the funny thing is I told people this one time,

522
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.799
and I was at a church, and then I kind

523
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.519
of caught the irony of telling people they can lie

524
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:50.599
in a church, and they got to chuckle out of it.

525
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:53.160
But it's you know, because here's the deal.

526
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.200
We're all going to get these scam calls at one

527
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.599
time or another, and we have to be prepared and

528
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:02.839
the only way where we are prepared is by talking

529
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.359
about it and just having a plan in our mind.

530
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:10.000
So this was absolutely amazing. Rachel.

531
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.440
Your advice is amazing. I'm so glad that you're willing

532
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.319
to share your story. It's going to help somebody. And

533
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:21.599
like I said, it's very brave to go on here

534
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:23.960
because a lot of people would sit there and say,

535
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.839
you know what, Oh, I almost fell first scam. I'm

536
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:27.319
not going to talk about it, but in your case,

537
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.720
you did, so thank you very much.

538
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:32.319
Sure, yeah, I mean that. Like I said at the beginning,

539
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.079
there is an element of shame, like how could I

540
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:38.720
be so stupid? You know to not listen to myself,

541
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:44.599
to not tell anybody, but I think you know, I

542
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.720
have told several friends and all of them, all and

543
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.640
my family too, all of them said like, thank you

544
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.400
for telling us, because because now we know right like

545
00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:59.960
that that could happen. And so yeah, I am yeah, Ie.

546
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.119
It made me a little wiser in it, you know,

547
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:06.039
for the next time, and maybe help someone else too.

548
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:09.640
So one of the one of the things I always

549
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:13.079
say at my presentations is it can happen to all

550
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:16.720
of us, and if it can happen to a smart

551
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:19.720
person like you, it literally can happen to all of us.

552
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:23.480
So that that's what gets rid of the stigma of

553
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:28.920
scammers is very smart people thought for scams. Rachel, I'm

554
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:30.559
going to give you the last word. Is there anything

555
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:32.359
I didn't ask you about, or any part of your

556
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.119
story that that you wanted to share before we close

557
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:37.240
out today's episode?

558
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:42.519
You know, I I don't think so. I you know,

559
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:44.839
just one other thing and you maybe know the statistics.

560
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:46.799
But another thing that helped me feel a little bit

561
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.440
better is so I looked up statistics. I'm like, how

562
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:55.599
much money scammers take every year. It's shocking, you know,

563
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.319
And and you know, the other thing was sharing my

564
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:01.359
story then to other people would be like, oh, well,

565
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:04.640
I know somebody who actually did give thirty and a

566
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.440
lot more money. I mean, seven thousand dollars is relatively

567
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:11.000
small compared to some of these other scams where they take,

568
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.559
you know, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of

569
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:18.799
dollars from people. So it is a real problem. So anyway,

570
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:21.000
I hope this can help someone.

571
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:26.359
Yeah, the numbers don't lie. They're absolutely staggering. And I've

572
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:28.880
met people that have lost as little as two hundred dollars,

573
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:32.839
and I've met people that have lost over millions of dollars.

574
00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:37.480
And it affects It affects people equally, and.

575
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:39.720
It's awful.

576
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:43.079
And we're not going to eliminate the scammers because it's

577
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:46.160
just too profitable, but we can dry up the pool

578
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:50.079
of victims by talking about it and normalizing it and

579
00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:55.240
sharing information. So Rachel, thank you once again. You did

580
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:58.480
a great job. I appreciate your time and I look

581
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:02.599
forward to seeing you around town in the near future. Thankesome,

582
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:06.440
and everybody out there, thank you for tuning in today

583
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:10.920
to let's talk about scams. Remember to go to Rosadvocacy

584
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:15.039
dot org and please sign up for our newsletter. We

585
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:17.359
send it out at the beginning of each month. It's

586
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:20.480
full of great information and it's just something we need

587
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.480
to be aware of and have in the back of

588
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.039
our minds all the time, just being prepared mentally for

589
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:28.640
when those scammers call. So please sign up. We will

590
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:33.599
be back next week. It'll be Joyce Petrowski back and

591
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:35.599
I get to take a break for a few weeks

592
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:38.920
until my next show. So thank you all for tuning

593
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:40.799
in today and we'll see you next week.

594
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:41.359
Hie.

595
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.599
Well, that's all the knowledge for this episode. Juni in

596
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:49.920
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio

597
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:54.160
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of

598
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:57.759
knowledge so you have the power to make scam protection

599
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:02.160
your healthy habit. Until then, feel free to reach out

600
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:04.759
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.