Sept. 2, 2025

Who Is Most Vulnerable to Romance Scams

Who Is Most Vulnerable to Romance Scams
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Season 1

Dr. Marina Dove is back to discuss romance scams - their techniques, who is most vulnerable, changes over time in how scammers manipulate, and how can we protect ourselves.

Dr. Martina Dove has a background in psychology and specializes in scams, social engineering, and individual factors implicated in fraud compliance.

Listen in as we dive into romance scams techniques, how scammers manipulate, and what you can to protect yourself and your loved ones.

Let’s Talk About Scams is broadcast live Tuesdays at 8AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Let’s Talk About Scams TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Let’s Talk About Scams Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional / legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources / Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/let-s-talk-about-scams--6483699/support.

WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational

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purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional

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legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted

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sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the

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elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to

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a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen

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show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their

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loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific time on

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K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and

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her guests. We'll provide valuable insights and practical tips on

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how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And now

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here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.

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Hi, everybody, welcome, back. Hope everybody had a great long

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Labor Day weekend. And I'm Joyce Petrowski, founder and board

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president of Rose Resources Outreach to safeguard the elderly.

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You're going to want to get on our.

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Website, Roseadvocacy dot org. You'll find all of our social

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media links on the homepage and scroll down to the

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bottom and you'll find where you can sign up for

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our emailed newsletter and our mailed newsletter, and don't forget.

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You're going to want to click subscribe so you don't

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miss an episode of our Let's Talk About Scams show.

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And today we have a prior guest that's going to

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join us, doctor Martina Dove. She's an expert in scam

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specifically against the older adults, and she wrote a book

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called The Psychology of Fraud, Persuasion and Scam Techniques. And

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so today we're going to talk about more about the

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romance scam and some different techniques that scammers use. So

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let's welcome doctor Martina Dove.

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Hello, everyone, nice to be here again.

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Thank you Martina for for doing this again. So we

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talked a little bit about it, but what are some

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of the scam or techniques that scammers use as it

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pertains specifically to romance scams.

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Yeah, like there's you know, I would say roman scams

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are quite complicated as scams because techniques tend to be

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layered all the time. So you know, you have a

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time where you're building rapport with a you know, a

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potential victim, so you get to layer techniques over and

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over and over, which like in a process that I

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call grooming. That it's known actually in the industry is grooming.

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So some of the techniques from the beginning, it's engaging

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the the you know, potential victim in the conversation where

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you're just getting that first commitment stage where you're exchanging

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messages every day, you're talking several times a day, you're

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building that trust and that bond. But I think, you know,

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kind of like more recents comes also focused on getting

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that kind of like a habit forming behavior from the victims.

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So you know that you are engaging in a conversation

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every day. These conversations are positive and you know the

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victim is responding to that kind of treatment and it's

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getting I don't want to use the word hooked, but

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it's getting accustomed to having that attention every day and

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having that friendship every day. So it starts like that,

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and then as the time progresses, this camera may send

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little tokens, you know, and gifts such as, you know,

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I've heard victims tell me he sent me some money

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for presents he sent me, Like one victim told me

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he sent me a birthday cake. I ate it, like

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it crazy, you know, for my birthday. So like, it's

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not uncommon that cameras will invest a little bit of

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money in the beginning to kind of send the victims

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some you know, kind of like tokens of love. And

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that serves two purpose, you know, dual purpose basically, one

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you know purpose it serves is that it adds credibility

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to the relationships. So if you have friends and family

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questioning whether this is a real relationship because the person

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has not met this person in real life, right, like,

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like why would somebody be sending your gifts they're not interested?

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So that a real right exactly, It makes it all

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the more real, It makes it really credible. And then

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on the other hand, you know, there's a non technique

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called reciprocity. It's when somebody does as favors, we feel

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obliged to do them favors, So it's really grooming the

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victim to feel obliged when Ascama needs.

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A favor, return the favor, and that's usually.

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When they need the money. So so basically it starts

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like that. It starts very positive, It starts with these

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like topics of love. What I'm seeing recently as well

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is that there are a lot of credibility c cues

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whereas Comer is openly sending you know, like it's proof

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of what they're telling the victim, where they're sending them

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to websites they talk about, you know, and they create

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these things right Like so let's say Escama will tell

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you they work abroad and they have a company. There'll

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be a website for that company. You know, they'll be

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they'll be you know, they'll clone websites of banks once

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uh down the road, when they're asking for money or

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something like that, you'll credentials to log into the bank account,

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which is real, it's not real application made just to

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scam victims.

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And they're they're getting really good at cloning websites, all

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different types of websites.

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Like and I would say, you know, this is where

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a new technology comes in with AI. It's very very

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easy to create. You don't need a developer, you know,

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need to create uh this realistic looking prototypes. You know

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that mimic bil website, you know, our applications. So then

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kind of like after that initial stage, you know, there

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will be typically in Roman scamps, there will be something

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called what I call a critical incident, uh somethings to

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the scammer, right, like like a lot of the times

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come doesn't ask for money, they will invent this incident

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either something happened, you know, and this story is very

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they were in the accident their business, you know, like

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somebody is suing them and and you know their accounts

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are locked. You know. I heard the story whereas Coma

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said there's been an explosion on a on a construction

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site that he runs and now he's been sued. You know.

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So there's there's like these big, big stories and a

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lot of the times they'll support it with some pictures

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or something. Again, now with AI, it's really easy to

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actually create some content that would make it credible. And yeah,

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and through that, like I would say, through that incident

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is where a victim will offer to help because they

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feel guilty that now somebody they love by this time,

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you know, and grooming stage can last months and months

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and months, you know, and the conversations are very deep,

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and these conversations are very you know, very convincing. You know,

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the victim may want to help what they think is

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their boyfriend by this time, or fiance or you know,

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and and therefore, like a lot of the times, the

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victim will offer them money because they feel like they

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have to help, even when they feel uncomfortable, you know,

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they feel like they must do it, you know, because

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they you know, this person has been kind to them,

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and we are brought up to exactly return favors, be

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kind to people, help people. So it's really praying on

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all of those things. And then if that doesn't work,

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if you know that doesn't work, the comma may start,

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like I've heard stories such as the comma started saying

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they're going to kill themselves just short. You know, they'll

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start blackmailing the victim in some way, either like emotionally,

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or they'll start applying direct threats such as like I'm

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going to leave this relationship. I see that you're not committed,

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you know. And and by this time, a lot of

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the times, victims are so committed at the money is like,

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you know, even just losing the money is not, as

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you know, as important to them as losing a relationship.

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You know. So a lot of the times, like they

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you know, scammers will take advantage of.

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That emotional bond, right, so it's that emotional toll afterwards,

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there's that financial aspect, but a lot of times that

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emotional psychological toll is much more severe, especially in this

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type of scam, because they've invested so much time, you know,

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with the scammer who they thought was a real well

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they are a real person, but you know that they

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believed that they were their fiance or boyfriend, girlfriend absolutely.

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And you know, one thing that I'm also seeing, like

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I'm seeing like much more sophisticated techniques now than even

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just a few years ago, even just five six years ago,

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you know, because of the technology and because it's becoming

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very very very luc I've heard stories where victims have

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told me, you know, I messaged him on a dating site,

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but his profile we had so much in common. So

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I think, what's happening, what must be happening. I don't

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have any proof, but I think through these stories, I've

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heard enough stories now to think that perhaps commers are

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joining dating sites and looking at the profiles and then

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creating profiles that would appeal to very specific woman, right,

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you know, maybe mimicking their situation or their you know,

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what they're believing, what they like doing, or stuff like that,

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and then you feel like you've contacted them that it's

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not a scam. Do you see what I mean? So

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all of the advice that we've been giving two people

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to protect themselves, they are now trying to kind of

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like bypass with the new technique.

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Oh right, because we talk about that uninitiated contact and

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you've got to be very very careful with that. But

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if you make the count act, then you already believe

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that this is a real control looking to date somebody,

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not just you have to scam somebody.

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You believe you're in control and therefore you're safe. Right.

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So it's I think I'm seeing more and more than

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the new and newer techniques are bypassing the advice about

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the old techniques. So they're getting you know, they're getting inventive.

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Right, and you know it's like you mentioned lucrative to

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them before, is they're going to constantly be changing their

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techniques and when they see what people are out there

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telling other people to do to protect themselves. Well then

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they're like, all right, well we're going to use that

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to our advantage.

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And absolutely, yeah, it's.

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Extremely difficult to try to keep up with them, right

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and or stay one step ahead of them.

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It's very difficult. And I remember total anecdote, but I

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remember when I was starting my PG. I remember one

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of the examiners oppose the questions, you know, because you

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have to defend your idea and you have to keep

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depending your idea as you as you're studying. One of

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the examiners on you know, on my annual review was

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something said to me, aren't sure worried that cameras are

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going to take you know, kind of like pointers from

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your PhD? And I'm like no, because once they're behind,

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you know, I'm not you know, I'm I like, I

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couldn't think of everything that's comes to think, you know,

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you know, so I think, like, we are always one

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step behind, but it's important to be one step behind

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and not ten.

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The exactly think yeah yeah, which you know goes to

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the fact about why it's so important for people to

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report yes, you know, even you know, good chance you're

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not going to get any of your money back. But

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you still should report because it gives not only law

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enforcement and prosecutors and information, is that it does get

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disseminated down to the you know, the public, and like

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we get information that we can then put out to people.

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Absolutely, I would say one other thing that I keep

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stressing about reporting even though and I think a lot

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of people don't report because they feel nothing would be done.

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So it's not it's the waste of the time. But

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I say, it's not waste of your time because you know,

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like think about how big movements happen. They don't happen

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because one person did something. It happens because people came

222
00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:36.960
together and you know, created a procedure for like amplifying something.

223
00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:39.679
And I think when people report, the scale of the

224
00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:44.440
problem becomes apparent, and the problems that are at a

225
00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:47.720
high like a bally big scale get funded.

226
00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:48.200
You know.

227
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:52.200
So I think, you know, when the government thinks there's

228
00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:54.320
not such a big problem, they're not going to be

229
00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:58.440
funding efforts to tackle those problems. So the more silent

230
00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.879
we are, it plays into the hands of cammers, you know.

231
00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.480
Basically, Yeah, and I know just you know, in the

232
00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:08.679
state of Arizona. Looking at the FBI statistics every year,

233
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.440
looking at you know, and that goes based on what

234
00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:16.000
people report and looking at how much money they lost

235
00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:19.159
in twenty twenty versus how much they lost in twenty

236
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:19.840
twenty four.

237
00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.240
It went up six hundred percent.

238
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:27.960
Yeah, yeah, And I think percentage, it's huge percentage. And

239
00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.480
I also think, like I do, think people are reporting more,

240
00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:36.240
and I think we are raising awareness that there's nothing

241
00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.480
to be ashamed of. This is a crime. This is

242
00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:41.759
a criminal activity, you know, and I think it needs

243
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:44.759
to be reported. And I think, you know, I think

244
00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.200
like perhaps an increase is in the fact that some

245
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:51.519
more people are reporting, because once upon a time, I

246
00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:54.039
think the figure for reporting was only like eight percent

247
00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.720
or something, you know, so it was just a tip

248
00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.360
of the iceberg, you know, when I was studying some

249
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.799
of the fee for reporting very very low. I think

250
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:05.720
that figure is higher, but it's still not one hundred percent.

251
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.120
I would like you to be handy, and it's not close.

252
00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.240
It's not even close to Yeah.

253
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:16.480
Yeah, So changes over time, because the romance scam has

254
00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:21.720
been around for years, right, is the majority of the

255
00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:24.759
changes that you're seeing. Do you think is it because

256
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:29.759
of artificial intelligence, it's about definitely.

257
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:35.240
Artificial intelligence has enabled comers to operate cheaply. Right. So

258
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:40.679
for example, whereas cams, you know, you could spot some

259
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:45.000
like spelling mistakes, you know, and stuff like that. For example,

260
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:49.320
Scamra wasn't native English speaker, you know, and for example,

261
00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.879
when they sent you an email, it wouldn't be perfectly beautiful.

262
00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:54.799
Looking and the bad grammar anymore.

263
00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:59.960
Exactly. Now that all is smoothed over by you know,

264
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.440
you can use chagipity free, you know. And I think

265
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.480
depending on how like I know chagipity, Like if you'll

266
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.200
say to you know, chagipity, hey, can you write me

267
00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:11.399
a fishing email? You won't do it, but you can

268
00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:15.159
trick it into writing a phishing email or tiding up

269
00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:19.879
your email and making it nice, nicely, you know better drammatically.

270
00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:22.799
So that's one aspect of it. And then there's like

271
00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:26.720
these fakes have become so good. You know, you can

272
00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:29.960
fake video, you can fake photographs, you can fake a

273
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.240
rail of photographs. Whereas this comma, you know, like let's

274
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:35.480
say just ten years ago, comma would have to go

275
00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:39.360
on somebody's Facebook adam as a friend, then steal their

276
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.080
photos to them like be able to send some photos.

277
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.240
Now they can just generate, like you know, they can

278
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.639
generate lots of photos that are the same person, you know,

279
00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:53.360
in different situations. So it's definitely adding to their credibility.

280
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.799
And then you know, as I said, I'm seeing a

281
00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:02.039
really big uptick in credible like the extreme credibility cues

282
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.039
that I call like and that's where a victim, you know,

283
00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:09.000
the critical incident happens right like somebody you know, and

284
00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:11.400
then the person says, look, you know, do you might

285
00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:13.880
account log into my account? Can you log into my

286
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:18.640
account and just transfer money into that account from my account?

287
00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.960
And then they give the log in details. The victim things,

288
00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:26.920
they're in a Bank of America accountant. They not, they're

289
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:32.359
in a prototype or a website that mimics them America.

290
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.200
They see, this person has lots of money, and you know,

291
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.079
and a lot of the times the victims like when

292
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.279
they when they were going through that thing, and that's

293
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:44.160
purely done so that the trust is built up. The

294
00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:47.039
victims said to me, you know, like I felt almost

295
00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:50.680
privileged because he's trusting me to go into his bank

296
00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.680
account and send this money. And there was lots of

297
00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:55.799
money in this account, So I felt privileged. I thought,

298
00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:58.680
this is like we are really truly a partners, you know.

299
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.599
So I think like those kind of things, more sophisticated

300
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:07.720
techniques in terms of like apping these credibility things that

301
00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.440
add to trust, right, like that kind of build the trust.

302
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:13.839
So I'm seeing a lot of that, and I think

303
00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:17.039
that's down to the AI because before it would cost

304
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.559
like you know, it would cause this camera to build

305
00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:22.839
these things. Now it's easier and cheaper. And then also

306
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:29.839
there's organized coming compounds now, right, so like it's a business.

307
00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:32.599
It's like coming is run like a business. Whereas it

308
00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.279
used to be a lone person here and there maybe

309
00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:41.440
a small organized group. Now there's like you know, there's

310
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:46.720
like it was, Yeah, it's serral, it's I mean, I mean,

311
00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:50.240
I'm I'm not laughing. I'm just like and sometimes I'm

312
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:55.559
even impressed just how how serious they took the descrime

313
00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.559
and how brazen they are in how they operate. But yeah,

314
00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:02.920
I think all of that combined, you know, and then

315
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.279
you have probably smart people like running it's supporting other

316
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.200
people that are coming and you know, and so on.

317
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:13.880
So yeah, definitely, So you mentioned you know about the

318
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:20.559
scammer showing the victim that they trust them. Does that

319
00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.480
psychologically do you think make the victim want to then

320
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:27.559
more readily trust the scammer?

321
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.119
Definitely? I mean, I mean think about this, right, like

322
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:34.480
we believe what we see and hear, right, and and

323
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.559
you know, like if you see somebody's bank account, right,

324
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:40.920
this is the person telling you, hey, I'm rich. Right,

325
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.319
this is a person showing you the are rige. But

326
00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:45.319
you've seen it with your own eyes. You think you've

327
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.200
seen it with your own eyes, right, So of course

328
00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:50.839
you're going to trust it, you know. And they do

329
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.200
that before you even ask them. So like what's smart

330
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.640
about this whole thing is that kind I won't even

331
00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.480
wait for you to say, how do I know you're

332
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:04.680
blah blah blah. They are offering these credibility cues before

333
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.279
the victim even has a warning sign, you know. So

334
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:12.279
it's really it's like really sophisticated manipulation. Whereas in a past,

335
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.039
maybe you know, a victim would just say, hey, how

336
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:16.480
do I know, like I don't want to send you

337
00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:18.759
the money, how do I know you bought a train

338
00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:21.119
ticket with that or something? Right? And then there would

339
00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:24.119
maybe fake a train ticket or plane ticket or something.

340
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.839
Now it's like the faking bank accounts and you'll send

341
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.599
like literally you are sending the money. You are like

342
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.640
making a wire transfer and having a process that any

343
00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:38.599
bank will have the meaning that you know, so why

344
00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:41.359
wouldn't you trust that? You know? And and and it's

345
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:43.920
only kind of like when when a scam happens and

346
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.599
and a victim has realized that they you know, some

347
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.000
some victims have taken screenshots and then they realized that

348
00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:56.279
maybe the website wasn't exactly so but even you know,

349
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.480
even some of the legitimate companies are using these proxy

350
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:02.400
websites to send emails like mail champ and you know,

351
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:04.640
so the links are not always coming from them.

352
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:07.319
A real we use mail champ and we send out

353
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:07.680
our news.

354
00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:10.599
So hard to know, like it's really really hard to

355
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.680
know sometimes, you know, and Amazon has all these spools

356
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.119
not spools, but they have a lot of different types

357
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:19.839
of kind of like uh, you know, ends of their

358
00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:23.960
emails or their you know, web addresses for different pages,

359
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:29.319
and you know, it's very easy to just know, yeah, yeah, so.

360
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:32.279
What was it?

361
00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:35.000
Well, right, so like when they they put on the

362
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:39.880
scammer puts on the screen their bank account, right, your

363
00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:44.240
I think your eyes automatically go towards the dollar amount

364
00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:47.680
because they're trying to show you that they are rich

365
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:49.440
or you know that they have not.

366
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:53.880
Even yeah, it's not even though they show you joyce.

367
00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:56.440
They send you a link to the website, can give

368
00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:01.640
you all evidentials to log in from several victims basically

369
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.799
the camera. You know, I'm in like Emirates, Like my

370
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.559
bank account is not allowing me to log in. Do

371
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.519
you mind sending these business associates so that I avoid

372
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:16.599
the legal things? Like they send a link to the

373
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:20.200
bank's website, right, but it's not it's a link to

374
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:27.200
a They give the victim details to log in. The

375
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:30.720
log in is mimicked. The victim logs in, the victims

376
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:33.519
doing it on their computer and they're seeing it. You know,

377
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:38.640
like these prototypes act like you know, like you know,

378
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:42.039
in production we call them, you know, when you're making products,

379
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.519
we call them feature flags. They behave like a real product, right,

380
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.000
but it's not yet in production, right, So so it's

381
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.319
kind of like they can create these prototypes that look

382
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.799
real and behave real and behave like a normal product.

383
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:59.240
It's very difficult to tell that it's not real. Yeah,

384
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:00.000
very difficult.

385
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:03.759
Well you have trained in that development part of it

386
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:06.240
to know what to look for, and the majority of

387
00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:08.000
the people aren't, no.

388
00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:10.559
Because you wouldn't. Why would you? You know, Like I

389
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.400
mean when you log in onto your bank account, like

390
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:14.920
you're not paying attention to every single time in my

391
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.880
new detail, right, Like it's a routine activity, right, So

392
00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:23.079
it's like, why wouldn't you? I think it's it's that

393
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.319
moment of like being caught doing routine things that you're

394
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:30.799
just not you know, why would you doubt somebody who's

395
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:32.680
giving you the credentials tools?

396
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:36.079
Right, they're credentials, right, because it's like, oh, they're supposed

397
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.440
to keep that confidential, but they must really trust me.

398
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:43.759
And if they're creating me this information, well it's.

399
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:47.200
Fay sinister and like that that didn't use to exist.

400
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:52.799
So I'm not surprised that people are, you know, convinced

401
00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:55.680
that this is a real relationship. I mean, if somebody

402
00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:00.279
gave me logins to their bank account, I would think, well, Okay,

403
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.680
this person really trusts me, and then like I would

404
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.519
feel bad not trusting them, you know too.

405
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:08.799
Right, right? That reciprocal.

406
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:10.640
But so.

407
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:16.240
I think when romance scams first started coming out, they

408
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:22.519
the scammers would target the older adults, the seniors. Are

409
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:25.839
they still the most vulnerable to these types of scams or.

410
00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:31.279
I think not just for romance scams, but also to scams.

411
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:35.759
I see a lot of like, elderly people specifically get

412
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:39.559
a lot of scams for sweet stakes and things like

413
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:45.079
that that comes from like these you know, two organizations

414
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:49.680
that are trusted or that they the lottery and stuff

415
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:53.039
like that, and or some like I think I can't

416
00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:55.000
remember what was the name of that, but like some

417
00:24:55.079 --> 00:25:00.720
kind of you know, organization that typically runs this switch takes.

418
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.960
They'll mimic letters for that, so they're targeting people with

419
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:06.400
letters as well as emails and stuff like that. So

420
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:08.839
I would say the elderly people, I think the you

421
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.519
know why I think elderly people get targeted a lot.

422
00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:15.519
I think it's down to a couple of things. One

423
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:18.039
is that, you know, perhaps they may be not as

424
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.359
aware because they're not online so much, so they may

425
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:24.039
not be aware of the new things, so you're catching

426
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:28.880
them unaware. They typically have money because they reach the

427
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:31.119
point in their life when they own their own houses

428
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:35.039
for one case, you know, and when I say elderly,

429
00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:38.000
I don't often, you know, like they can spend you know,

430
00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:42.039
I think I would say older rather than elderly, you know,

431
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:45.079
because like I think, you know, people are you know,

432
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:49.400
can be older, but not necessarily completely vulnerable or anything

433
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:51.799
like that. So, you know, but like you are the

434
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.400
point of your life that actually you're a lucrative victim,

435
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.200
So why not invest time in that victim, you know,

436
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:02.039
because you can actually get a lot of money, especially

437
00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:05.480
with the speak Butcherings cams, with the with the romance fraud,

438
00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:09.000
you know, the amount of money tends to be larger.

439
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:13.599
But really anybody is vulnerable. You know. We're seeing now's

440
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:21.240
extortion targeting children, you know, and again it's it's becoming

441
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:24.880
very prominent exactly. So it's like I don't think there's

442
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.599
an age group that isn't targeted. I think it's really

443
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:32.119
depends what types of scams are sent to. I would

444
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:36.839
say romans scams tend to target people that are you know,

445
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:40.759
of an age where you may have gotten divorced, you know,

446
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.640
and your house or you lost your spouse. Yeah, and

447
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:49.079
I think this is where you're really vulnerable because you know,

448
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.279
maybe you were out of the dating scene for a while,

449
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:55.000
and therefore you're not aware of what's going on, right,

450
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:58.559
Like like somebody else who's actively dating, you know, would

451
00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:01.160
maybe be aware. So it's kind of like trying to

452
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:05.279
figure out like who is more vulnerable to what and

453
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:09.519
then just hitting that demographic more aggressively. And there's a

454
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:11.559
say that a young person wouldn't be hit with the

455
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.599
Roman scams. Please don't quote me like anybody's vulnerable, always be,

456
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:17.720
always be watching for scammers.

457
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:21.119
Yeah, everybody is vulnerable to any scam, right, It's just

458
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.039
or I should say anybody is a target to any scam.

459
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:29.160
It's just some age populations have a tendency to be

460
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.039
a little bit more vulnerable to specific scams, right. And

461
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:36.839
like you said, you know, especially with the older adults,

462
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:39.799
you would have somebody that's maybe been married for fifty

463
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.440
plus years and they lost their spouse. Well, that creates

464
00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:49.039
a huge loneliness. And then if they're not connected to

465
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:53.519
their community, they're even more lonely, which is one of

466
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:57.400
the you know, red flags for them. But this, you know,

467
00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:01.559
the SCAMMERSPC like if they're on a dating site or

468
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:06.119
they're on Facebook and their relationship status is widow or

469
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:09.079
widower and they have that and their you know, or

470
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:12.079
they've been talking about on Facebook about the loss of

471
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:14.000
their spouse and all of that.

472
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:16.359
I think we give out way too.

473
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:24.200
Much information online, personal information. That scammers are constantly trolling

474
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:28.319
all of these sites to gather information. And with AI, right,

475
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:32.279
I mean that they can just plug in I'm looking

476
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:34.119
for these keywords.

477
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.359
And I wouldn't even say like that. I would say

478
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:42.640
we posit that we likeink about how many data breaches

479
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:46.559
have happened, and boy kids of information, you know. So

480
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.640
for example, it's a known fact that when people become

481
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:54.759
la widowed, or they suffer some medical you know, trauma

482
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:58.599
or accident or illness, this is where the scammers start

483
00:28:58.759 --> 00:29:02.279
contacting you. This is not because they're trolling the Facebook,

484
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:04.880
because that would be two time consuming. It's because they're

485
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:08.400
stealing data. They're purchasing data, you know, and some of

486
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:13.000
these organizations are selling data, you know, they're selling our data.

487
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:16.279
So it's kind of like I think it comes more nowadays.

488
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:19.839
I think once upon a time, probably now nowadays probably

489
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:22.960
comes from just being purchased for very little money and

490
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.680
then just like you're being hit, you know, because these

491
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.240
things are recorded in registries and and you know, some

492
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:33.519
of this information is public information, you know, so it's

493
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.240
kind of you know, like I would say, smart cameras

494
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.880
don't invest a lot of time trolling anything. They already

495
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:43.759
have that, you know, they can easily purchase. I think

496
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:46.559
like some of credit card information can be purchased for

497
00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:49.640
like pennies, you know, or sense you know.

498
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:51.680
So it's kind of like I mean, like a lot

499
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:52.319
of times.

500
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.960
So this is interesting when you mentioned credit card information.

501
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:00.720
My husband and I recently were out this new ice

502
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:05.000
cream shop in the area and I used one of

503
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:10.559
our credit cards to pay and it wanted me to

504
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:15.480
like sign up for rewards or whatever, so I hate yes,

505
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.519
and it immediately had all of my personal information.

506
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.759
For the rewards.

507
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:25.480
I didn't have to input it anymore. And it was

508
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:27.359
like that had to have come from the credit card.

509
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:30.720
It's it's not just a credit card like think of it,

510
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.880
you know. And I've done a research project when I

511
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.799
was working for Microsoft, I think, you know how on

512
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.440
on data. And one of the interesting things that that

513
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:44.160
I realized when I was doing some research on kind

514
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:49.559
of how how a data gets uh sent and shared

515
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:52.880
and so on and support. So like businesses will collect

516
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.480
as much data about you as they possibly can, because

517
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.359
they can target you with marketing things and they hit

518
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:04.480
exactly advertising but not advertising offers. Right, if they hit

519
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.960
you with the right offer, you know, it's a it's

520
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.480
a legal is coming in a sense.

521
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:09.079
Right.

522
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.319
So so basically, the more they know about you, the

523
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:14.680
more they can actually target you with things that will

524
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.359
be of interest, right the way you can purchase something.

525
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:20.920
So so what happens is that let's say you know,

526
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:23.640
like a shop or not to name any names, but

527
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.160
let's say you're shopping with a certain shop. Are you

528
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.720
ask shop or you know, a larger a department store,

529
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:33.359
but the department stores what you're spending money on, they

530
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.400
probably have kept some information on like maybe you loggin

531
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:40.279
video number for rewards or something like that, so they

532
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:43.039
know what you're purchasing, right, but they you know, maybe

533
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:47.039
they know what you're purchasing and they know your like

534
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.720
a laptop I D and your IP address if you're

535
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:53.640
purchasing online. Right, So if I was that store, I

536
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.880
don't have other information like who are you're voting for

537
00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:59.079
or who are you like? I don't know other stuff.

538
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:02.400
So they that they can go to a data broker

539
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:06.759
who has collected other information about you, and like you're

540
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:09.200
going to websites where you're reading news, or you're going

541
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:13.359
on different social media sites with the same laptop with

542
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:15.839
the same IP address, with the same laptop with the

543
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:21.000
same ID, and they will join the data right like

544
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.359
bio laptop I D right like your your you know

545
00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:27.400
computer ID, and they will create what it's known as

546
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:32.759
golden red card. It's basically everything about you. And there

547
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:35.839
are data brokers that have some pieces of information. The

548
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:38.400
companies can go, can you tell me more about the

549
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:41.759
person living in this IB address with this computer. They

550
00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:44.799
will then say, well, the same IP address as this computer,

551
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:47.720
and that computer is browsing this, that and the other.

552
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:50.000
Because a lot of the times when I'm like, let's

553
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.279
say browsing as still order, but my husband gets advertisements

554
00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:58.400
where still order, and I know they join the joining

555
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.440
our data just be address, you know, because it's sending

556
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:05.200
to a different computer like with a different but like

557
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:09.000
that's how companies and legitimate companies do it all the time.

558
00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:13.920
They purchase data, they join data so that they know

559
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.680
everything about you. Because if they know everything about you,

560
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:19.000
they can then hit you with things that are interesting.

561
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:21.759
And how is do to saying, you know, I mean

562
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:22.599
no doubt.

563
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.839
That they have access to buy that data, right, yeah, exactly.

564
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:26.839
Yeah.

565
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.799
So it's interesting. I try a lot when I get.

566
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:33.880
On websites and it comes up and says we track cookies.

567
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:35.400
You know you.

568
00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:39.160
Sometimes it'll give you the option to reject all except

569
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:44.559
for the necessary ones, or manage them. And I'll either

570
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.200
reject all or I'll go in and manage and I

571
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:50.759
turn everything off. And it's because it's different by the company.

572
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.480
Sometimes they have everything turned on and you have to

573
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:57.279
turn off everything except for the strictly necessary ones. So

574
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:02.880
if you turn everything off except strictly necessary, then is that,

575
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:06.480
like by law, they're not supposed to be in essence

576
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:08.719
tracking you and what you're doing.

577
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:12.320
I think in America, I think some states. I think

578
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:15.840
California has a law, but I don't know that most

579
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:18.760
of the states don't really have good privacy laws. It's

580
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:22.280
really yeah, it's stayed by state. I know in Europe

581
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:24.679
they would have to abide by it, but they don't.

582
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:26.719
I still get like I lived in London for a

583
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.719
long time and I still get like random emails, somebody

584
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.679
sold my data even though you know I didn't, you know,

585
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:36.400
they have to abide by JDPR, you know regulation where

586
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.840
like they have to They can't just like contact me

587
00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:43.079
unless I've done business with them, but they purchased something

588
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:47.000
like you know, from someone and and so like I think,

589
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.360
you know a lot of the times, you know. What

590
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:54.199
I find as well is that smaller businesses will abide

591
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.679
by that because they're just two of and then a

592
00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:00.960
larger businesses will will still being yeah exactly, or if

593
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.719
they don't get like even the strict cookies, like the

594
00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:07.639
cookies for performance website performance, right, they still track your

595
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:11.280
IP address, they still truck some of the information, right like,

596
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:15.159
so they can still join that information. Go to a

597
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:18.199
data broker and say, hey, we have these these customers

598
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:20.960
we don't have like you know, just give me a

599
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.199
golden record on that, right and they'll you know, so

600
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.519
a lot of our data is out there, you know.

601
00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:30.119
And I think it's easy to purchase. I don't think

602
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:32.440
it's very expensive. And actually when you go to websites

603
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.599
for these data brokers, you can buy packages people who

604
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.679
like buying for Fourth of July, people who like Christmas,

605
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:42.199
people who you know, all of the purchase data is

606
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.199
collected and curated, so that like for certain things that

607
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:49.880
can hit people that actually have previously purchased, you know,

608
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:53.440
purchase a lot of Christmas so buy lots of Christmas

609
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.920
ornaments every single year. I go overboard, right, I'm probably

610
00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:57.880
on some list for that.

611
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:01.159
Yeah, And you know that makes sense.

612
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.320
So that brings up a question I've been reading articles

613
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:09.920
about and they're usually subscription based where you can pay

614
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:16.079
companies that will monitor your data online and wipe it.

615
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.920
You know, as they see it, they'll they'll get it off.

616
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:23.719
So it's and it's normally a paid subscription. Is that

617
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:27.320
two different things what we were just talking about what's

618
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:31.280
collected on a website and then could be sold versus

619
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:32.800
what is online?

620
00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:36.400
I don't know. I mean like it really depends like

621
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:40.519
how you use it. I don't know. I think to

622
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:43.760
some degree, maybe they'll have some success requesting that your

623
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:47.679
data is removed, but as you browse again, it's on

624
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.800
there somebody, it's on there again, and you know they're

625
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:53.519
collecting things on you again. And also I think a

626
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:57.119
lot of like I think when you're thinking about legitimate businesses,

627
00:36:57.239 --> 00:37:00.000
I'm not worried that notes from a target has information

628
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:02.199
on what kind of things I bought in the stores

629
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:05.480
or what kind of website I'm reading news on, Like

630
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:07.840
I know they're not going to do anything bad about that,

631
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:10.599
you know, Like it's it's just you know, and the

632
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:13.079
worst they're going to send me some advertisement, right like,

633
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:15.760
and that's fine, I will purchase or one purchase this

634
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:18.320
up to me. But I think what I'm worried about

635
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:20.440
is a lot of that data is also on dark

636
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:24.039
web that you can e raise, you know, and then

637
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:28.360
it's it's more difficult to manage, and that's where criminals

638
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:31.599
are purchasing that data. So I do not yeah, exactly,

639
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.840
So it really depends, like I feel like we have

640
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.360
lost of war on data privacy. Just be very careful,

641
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:42.280
like just be aware that you know, a lot of

642
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.360
what it is on you know, what you do online

643
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:49.480
is tracked in some way, and yeah, like it's it's

644
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:53.079
very much. Yeah, Like I do know what degree you

645
00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:56.679
could remove all of your data from everywhere.

646
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:02.360
Including right because like you said, you know, you could

647
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:05.679
have cookies enabled out there with a company that you

648
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.760
haven't done business within ten years, but they're still there

649
00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:10.320
and they're still tracking you.

650
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:13.400
And it's not just even like I think even when

651
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:16.079
you OpEd out of the cookies or you know, like

652
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:18.920
it's it's it's like, I think there are there are

653
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:22.079
businesses that actually data is the business. They screate for

654
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:25.239
data and data, you know. But I think a lot

655
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:30.159
of these datas as well, like the legitimate companies keep

656
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:33.119
on us, has been has been breached and stolen, and

657
00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:36.599
so it exists in another universe that I don't know,

658
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:38.599
I don't know, yeah, exactly.

659
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:39.079
Yeah, the dark web.

660
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:41.920
And I've noticed in the last year I've been seeing

661
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:46.519
more data breaches to health companies, so whether it's an

662
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:49.920
insurance company, whether it's some sort of like I think

663
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:54.039
the most recent one I saw was with the dialysis

664
00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:59.639
center was breached. And you know, that's a lot of information,

665
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.360
a lot of personal information out there.

666
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.840
Yeah, no, it's it's really like I think that worries

667
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:08.800
me as well. And I think a lot of the

668
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:12.639
companies as well done abide by the hip either like

669
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:17.360
they you know, you have to have a control over

670
00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:20.800
whether you want that information to be shared even you know,

671
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:24.199
like for example, I go to a spa, you know,

672
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.559
in my local gym for a massage and they have

673
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:30.159
a form they should allow me to opt out of

674
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:34.159
them sharing what I share with them, but the form

675
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.800
is always broken and you can only accept and not deny.

676
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:41.280
And so I'm always very aware that I'm just not

677
00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:45.320
like I'm I'm so suspicious that I'm just not truthful.

678
00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:48.840
Sometimes I guard my date of birth. I guard my

679
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:52.360
you know, like like if you know, I remember like

680
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:56.840
some years ago I was subscribed to a magazine in

681
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:00.400
England and like that subscription wanted my day to birth.

682
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:03.360
Why I just I have a fake I have a

683
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:06.000
fake data birth sometimes like I will put you know.

684
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.679
So it's kind of like I think it's on a

685
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:12.159
need to know basis, Like you don't need to and

686
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:15.000
you don't need to be completely honest with your medical data.

687
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:22.400
Like some applications that you know end up you know,

688
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:26.599
being used for you to be targeted by like some products,

689
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:29.920
you know. So so I feel like I think we are.

690
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:32.800
I don't know there is a good way to protect

691
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:37.000
a data, you know. So just my my advice would

692
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:40.239
be to just be careful with what you share online. Uh,

693
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:42.639
and and kind of even just share online in terms

694
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:46.800
of what seems like a legitimate company, not just on Facebook,

695
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:49.000
you know, sharing your stuff.

696
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:53.400
Right and and you know, like you said, always always question,

697
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:56.400
you know why, don't don't be afraid to ask, you know,

698
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:59.960
why do you need this information? And I often tell

699
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.599
people if the response is, well it's a question on

700
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:05.519
the form, that's not an answer. That just might be

701
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:09.320
that the person you're asking has no idea I know

702
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.159
information is really needed or not right.

703
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:16.320
Sometimes you can't even you're checking out, like at the store,

704
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:19.519
and they'll want you or like your email address, like

705
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:23.280
why just can I just forget a receipt you need?

706
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:26.400
You know, Sometimes it's like, oh, but they prefer us

707
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:28.280
to have your email address. Well, I prefer not to

708
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:29.320
give it, you.

709
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:31.880
Know, right now now I think they're you know, they're

710
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:35.199
they're using it as we can email you your receipt

711
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.840
because a lot of people are paperlesss they'd rather have

712
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:41.840
the receipt emailed. Well, then, now now the company has

713
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:44.360
your email address, right, that might not.

714
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.320
It's fine, I mean, email address is pretty benign. But

715
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:50.320
then you get you get bombarded and you know, or

716
00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:52.440
like your phone and they're like, oh no, we would

717
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:54.760
never text you. And the next day you get.

718
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:57.559
Right, you get attacked. Well, we're going to text.

719
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:00.320
You when things go on sale and when there's ads right,

720
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:07.039
it's yeah. Yeah, so wow. So outside of data privacy

721
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:11.840
and being careful of what you share online, are there

722
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:15.719
other ways that we can protect ourselves when specifically regarding

723
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:17.559
around like romance scams.

724
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:21.960
Yeah, I would say, like, I mean, I know it's

725
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.559
super basic, but I think in the age of AI

726
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:28.400
right now, with the fact that people can fake videos

727
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:34.159
pretty realistically, I would say, like, just have a rule

728
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.280
to not engage with people that are not in your

729
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:41.079
hometown and they don't want to meet, like try and

730
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:43.719
meet straight away, like, you know, if this is a

731
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.760
real relationship, if it is a real, real thing, Like

732
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:50.360
if somebody contacts you and it's comings are very good,

733
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:52.400
it'll contact you and say, I'm just on a business

734
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.679
trip right now. I'm like some coming back next month.

735
00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:59.920
Just you know, don't don't engage in conversations two deep conversations,

736
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:01.880
just say oh great, like it seems like we have

737
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:03.960
a lot in common, but like, let me talk when

738
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:06.719
you're back. When you're back, you know. And I think

739
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.199
I think, like it's it's almost impossible to give any

740
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:13.920
other advice because I think once you get emotionally involved,

741
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:18.960
it's sometimes too late to actually give any rational advice.

742
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:23.000
But I think, like with AI becoming so good and

743
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.960
creating really good deep fakes, I don't know that you

744
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.480
can even be sure when you're speaking to somebody on

745
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.039
a video that that's the real pace exactly.

746
00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:34.760
That that's because you have to know the nuances to

747
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:40.280
look for, right. I recently had to verify myself and

748
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:44.880
I had to do a video selfie and you know,

749
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:46.960
they said, okay, turn your head to the right, turn

750
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:48.599
your head to the left, and I do that a

751
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:53.239
few times, and it was monitoring, you know, and so

752
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:58.880
you know, it's it's interesting the advances that they're making

753
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:01.159
verify somebody.

754
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:05.920
Definitely, I mean, like like like AI, it's good, but

755
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:08.840
like sometimes when you like like lift your hands or

756
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:12.559
something like that, it can kind of like go a

757
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.519
little bit weird. So like I mean, you could, like

758
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.760
that's one thing, if you're talking to somebody on a video,

759
00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:22.280
you can ask them to lift the hands to take

760
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.400
off the background, or you know, to kind of like

761
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:27.599
you know, put something in front of them, like a

762
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:30.400
book or something like that. And sometimes they can give

763
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:33.400
you an idea whether there's a filter over the video.

764
00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:37.159
But I I, you know, I'm so impressed with how

765
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:39.760
far AI has come just in a year or two

766
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.000
that I would say, I wouldn't even like say that

767
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:49.320
that's safe. Come, let's just meet in local Starbucks, right.

768
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:54.719
Yeah, right, definitely, because so many things can be faked.

769
00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:58.480
I know. It's it's like with the AI, I would say,

770
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.079
And and that's something I've just updated my book. The

771
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:05.440
second edition is coming in October or November, I think.

772
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:08.039
And one of the things that I talk about is like,

773
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:13.119
how AI is going to really distort what a reality

774
00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:16.880
is because reality is shaped by what we hear and

775
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:19.800
what we see, and both can be faked by AI.

776
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.360
Now exactly right.

777
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:24.960
Voices can be cloned, right, places can be cloned, So

778
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:29.079
how do we how will we ever know? Right? Unless

779
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:30.199
you're standing in front of.

780
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:33.639
Me, exactly and you still have to keep your guard

781
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:36.880
up when you're meeting somebody in person, absolutely right, because

782
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:41.480
they still can you know, it happens unfortunately all the time. Right,

783
00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:45.480
We're trying to tell you something you don't need, you know,

784
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.519
They're they're trying to, you know, develop a friendship or

785
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:54.599
a love interest in order to have you sign everything over.

786
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:57.199
To them or maybe giver right.

787
00:45:57.320 --> 00:45:59.559
I mean, it's just so you still have to keep

788
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:03.159
your guard up even in person. But yeah, wow, there's

789
00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:07.000
been a lot of great information. I think the number

790
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.039
one thing is everybody has to keep their guard up

791
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:10.760
and don't be afraid to question.

792
00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:14.280
Yes, you have to question everything, like I think we

793
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.719
are now, uh like I I mean some of these

794
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.159
need fakes are so good they have full the CEOs

795
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:24.800
companies to send millions, Like I think, you just need

796
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:28.039
to question everything. And and it's it's to some degree,

797
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:30.360
it's really sad, you know that we're live in that

798
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:32.840
kind of a world, you know, but as humans, we

799
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:35.400
want to trust, we want to be nice to other people,

800
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:37.679
and we're being told constantly.

801
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:40.840
To not trust into the right Yeah right, it's yeah,

802
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:41.400
it's a.

803
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:43.400
It's a whole different world.

804
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:44.440
Yeah.

805
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:49.079
Anyways, thank you so much for joining us. And I'm

806
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:51.920
hoping in the near future we can get where you

807
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:55.599
and Aaron and I are all on together and talk

808
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:59.079
about some different things. I think that absolutely that would

809
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:02.639
be great. But thank you again for everything. I can't

810
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:05.159
wait for your your second edition, for your book to

811
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:05.519
come out.

812
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:06.320
That's going to be.

813
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:09.119
Honest, so it has I mean everything you read in

814
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:13.000
the first edition, is there a plus more examples more uh,

815
00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:16.320
you know, more examples, some things on AI and how

816
00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:19.719
I is going to change the landscape of broad and

817
00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:21.360
so on and so forth. But yeah, like I bought

818
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.039
it a lot more examples to just kind of I

819
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:27.719
think that's how people learns, so I'll be focused on that.

820
00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:33.440
Yeah, all right, well, very good, all right, thanks Martina, Okayane,

821
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:38.360
all right, so thank you guys for joining today. Lots

822
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:42.199
of great information about romance scams, scams in general, some

823
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:46.000
red flags to look out for, some different psychology behind

824
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:51.280
the scams, different scammer techniques, how they've evolved, and you know,

825
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.199
as Martina and I just discussed, keep our guard up

826
00:47:55.679 --> 00:47:59.239
and we need to question, we need to question, and

827
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:02.159
we need to very before we can begin to trust.

828
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:05.800
So don't forget our website, Roseadvocacy dot org. You'll find

829
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.880
our social media channels out there and all of the

830
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:12.239
episodes from the radio show or on our YouTube channel,

831
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.360
and scroll down to the bottom of the homepage and

832
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:19.840
sign up for our emailed and or mailed newsletters. It's

833
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:23.599
a way to get updated scam information and protection tips,

834
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:27.639
and also just to keep scam prevention top of mind.

835
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:31.800
So when you're contacted, because you will be contacted. You're

836
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:35.519
more apped, you have scam prevention in the back of

837
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.719
your mind, and so you're going to be better app

838
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:41.480
to take that pause and check things out, do your

839
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:46.239
research and verify instead of getting engaging and getting into

840
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:50.559
that emotional state and then making some not so good decisions.

841
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:53.960
So Brian Watson is going to be here as the

842
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:57.199
guest host next week, and I'm sure he'll have a

843
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:00.559
lot of great valuable information for you. So thank you

844
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:02.840
and I will see you. I will see you back

845
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:05.280
here in two weeks, but look forward to seeing Brian

846
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:05.920
next week.

847
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.559
Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in

848
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:14.800
every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHD Radio

849
00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:19.639
at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge.

850
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:23.280
So you have the power to make scam protection your

851
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:27.079
healthy habit and until then, feel free to reach out

852
00:49:27.079 --> 00:49:29.679
to Joyce and let's talk about scams.