Job Scams Meet Aging Scams

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references. However, Rose Resources outreach to safeguard the elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam. Let's talk about scams. It's the must listen show for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their loved ones from scams. Every Tuesday am Pacific time on K four HD Radio, Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose, and her guests will provide valuable insights and practical tips on how to recognize and protect yourself from scams. And now here is your host, Joyce Petrowski.

1:20 Hi, everyone, welcome back to Let's Talk About Scams Radio show. I'm Joyce Petrowski, the founder and board president of Rose Resources Outreach to Safeguard the elderly. I'm sure you enjoyed Brian the last couple weeks. I know he talked about that great new law we have here in Arizona with the cryptocurrency ATMs. It's going to be very interesting over the next six to twelve months to see how many of those are taken down that the owner operators decide, Hey, I'm not going to have these in my store. My hope is that all of them will go away. But today we are going to talk about job scams, meeting senior scams. But before we get into that, don't forget to go to our website, Roseadvocacy dot org and you can scroll down to the bottom of the homepage and sign up for our newsletters.

2:14 We do one via email and one in the mail, and you. Can all our social media links are there, and you're going to want to click subscribe to our YouTube channel so you don't miss an episode of Let's Talk About Scams Show. So our guest today, Jay Jones, is a copywriter and globally recognized cybercrime investigator and fraud prevention specialist, best known as the Profiler. After dedicating years to building a career in advertising and achieving his dream role at an ad agency, Jay's trajectory changed dramatically when he was laid off unexpectedly just before the birth of his daughter in December of twenty twenty three. Jay is a pioneer in platform accountability. Is an internationally known expert on LinkedIn fraud and scam detection, with his work and advocacy featured in NBC News and Yahoo News.

3:10 His impact is measured by results. To date, Jay has personally gotten thirty two thousand, six hundred and forty fake jobs and over seven thousand fraudulent profiles removed from LinkedIn, protecting thousands of real professionals and businesses across the globe. So let's welcome Jay. Hey Joyce, thank you for the great intro. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Thank you for joining. I think this is going to be a very interesting show with some interesting topics. So why don't you just tell us a little bit more about what you do? Sure? So, my work through the Profiler Protection Service is my business where I help real professionals, real companies, and real entrepreneurs and solorepreneurs be protected online from job scams or impersonate or any type of intellectual theft because it's a rampant problem in this day and age. AI makes it a lot easier for bad actors to do this, And so for me, what I'm doing is intervening and stopping this from being as pervasive as it is, so more people are educated and protected.

4:17 Right. So, I mean, job scams are running rampant, just like all kinds of scams, right, And there's a lot of there's a lot of overlap between job scams and senior scams. There are a lot of seniors that are deciding to go back into the workforce for a variety of different reasons. And you know they are most likely going to look online to try to find jobs. Yeah, because given their age, typically they might have some physical ailments or other limitations, and they're trying to find things that are primarily remote, you know, gone in the days where you know, the retirement age is sixty five. It just keeps moving further and further out it does.

4:59 And so you know, as they keep living, which we want them to do, you know they unfortunately have to go back to work and what they typically target or remote jobs or things that can keep them home bound so they can generate revenue and not compromise they'll have their health further. But that's where the scams come in with the big jobs. Wow. Okay, And in your in the bio that I read, how long well, it says you started it was sometime either December of twenty twenty three or after that you started this. Yeah. I was laid off on the summer fourth, twenty twenty three, and then I started to look for work. Immediately that same day, I turned on the green banner on LinkedIn and I got a lot of attention. And prior to that, i'd heard rumblings about how bad the job market was, but I thought that that was just maybe just people just spreading rumors and fear based messaging.

5:49 But then I started to see that all of these messages that I got were from recruiters quote unquote, but they weren't affiliated with any companies. They were stealing pictures of attractive women, yeah, and trying to get your information as fast as possible in order to get you into these fake job opportunities. So my first case. It happened in January of twenty twenty four, because I decided that, you know, even though they couldn't get me, I didn't want them to get anybody else to take advantage of them. And I felt a responsibility to help people because if I didn't say something, then there would be this big void and they would persist these rampant scams. Right, well, that's great that you said something, right, and you continue to say something. I mean, seven thousand fraudulent profiles.

6:32 Wow, yeah. Three thousand of those alone were frank resume riders for one fake company that I got taken off LinkedIn that was called a ten Star Resume Limited and they had been on LinkedIn for years prior to me. Wow. Wow, So do you. Do you have a good working relationship? Then with LinkedIn that they're gonna they're gonna want to take a take a second look at ones that you bring to their attention. I'm guessing or you've had to really fight too and nail. Tooth and nail. And then in the cases that I lay out, because I make a visual case file to show irrefutable proof that these profiles are fake, the content that they have on their profile was stolen, and it's preceded by a real person who posted this content on their profile years ago, if not many years ago. Because these bad actors, they don't know how to communicate well.

7:23 They rely on scripting through AI and SA contacts from established professionals and using that they can pretend to be authentic and trick people who have no idea the person they're talking to is a SCAMMERA. So it's been it's been a tooth and nail fight. Yeah, so you said, you know, like with the grammar. That's one of the things that you know, we teach in our presentations is AI and we talk about the chat GBT and the generative text AI out there and about how you know, you used to be able, whether it was a text message and email. You know, something you got in the mail you saw this bad grammar and you were like, okay, this doesn't make sense right, And now everything is polished because they're just putting prompts into AI and you know, it's it's amazing. I see a lot of the older adults just kind of their eyes go wide. It's like they can put prompts into you know, like write me an email that I want to send to the seniors or older adults, whatever term they use in the Midwest or in the East, or in the western part of the United States, you know whatever geographically, And I want to entice them to donate to a charity. I want to pull out their heartstrings, and AI within seconds will generate an exact email that.

8:50 They can use. And so I think AI is while it came out for good, you know, obviously technology scammers have access to it. Yeah, And that's the unique advantage I have being a copywriter, because you know, I write, and I know how the structure sentences, paragraphs, phrases and things like that. And so when I see certain things, I can tell when it's AI generated, because AI typically use a lot a lot of gerns, so unintentional add ons to the end of a sentence to try to make it more powerful or more meaningful. They'll use a lot of M dashes, They'll use a lot of emojis, and a lot of vague content what I call word salad. So it's a big block of text. But when you actually look at it from an objective perspective, you see that they aren't really saying anything. They're talking about a subject but they're not a subject matter expert, which is a clear difference. Yeah, they play on the heart strings. Yeah yeah, And then you know they play on the heart strings of the elderly because you know, they want to know that they're talking to someone real, that someone is investing time and speaking with them, Because if you're really trying to be a quick hitter, then that can fall flat. But if you hit them with a large body of text that is tailored to their profile or maybe their history, because there's so much about us.

10:07 Online, their life, their hobbies. Yeah, but you know their interests think yeah. Yeah, and it leads them to thinking that this is a real person they're talking to, but that that's the trouble. Wow, that's crazy. So that story about almost half of those fraudulent profiles you had taken down came from just one one profile had like had made up like thirty different profiles or thirty different not thirty three thousand different was it jobs or No? Ten Star Resume Limited was a quote unquote company that offered resume writing services to anybody who was in the job market. But the problem was they was, yeah they was still information from real resume writers profiles. They would fake certificates. They were still pictures of attractive women in the realty space or foreign models, Pakistani actresses, you know, the whole.

11:04 Through that they made up three thousand different profiles correct, yes, and it was one company correct yeah. Yeah. And you know I and I eventually tracked it down, you know, because I was running into the issue of finding the head of the snake, so to speak, because I knew all the fake profiles, I knew where they were, how they were messaging people, and I would go after them to inform people about how this scam particularly works. But in order to really take it down, you have to show the faces behind it. Yeah, And so ultimately I had to do research and find some paperwork that showed who the owners were of this quote unquote business in the guy's name was in the seer jot and you know, went on a campaign to make sure that his business was taken down. And it was good.

11:48 Good, that's great. So have you have you talked to. Any victims of these types of job scams where they actually sent money for whatever reason, thinking that they're going to get this job that they had to pay, you know, fees, they had to pay for equipment, whatever, have you talked to any of the victims countless ones. Either people see my cases, they know the work that I do, and they'll reach out to me and share their experiences with me. Two of the most notable cases that I had. It was some months back, but it was the home equipment fee scam. One woman she was taking a job with a sheen, so she thought as a customer service representative. She had a job, left that job to take this job, but it was a fake one, and she got a check for about two thousand dollars.

12:39 And you know how the home desktop scam works or home equipment scam. I'm sure your audience knows. But a quick rundown is these bad actors will send you a check, say you have to use their approved vendor to buy this equipment, but the vendor is them, and they logged your payment details through this portal or their own website. And then they'll go as far as give you an official start date. So you're excited, you think job search is over. Then when your start day comes, you hear nothing. You start to get confused and concerned, and then the next call you get is from your bank saying the check bounce and the second case was a woman who took a job with Epsilon who so she thought, and it was another instance of the desktop equipment check scam where she was conned out of two thousand dollars.

13:21 So she was conned out of two thousand did they send her a check and she deposited and started writing checks against it, and then that money was no longer there now. In both instances, the checks were around twenty or twenty five hundred dollars. And how they say this scam works is you get the check, you deposit it, you buy the equipment, and then the difference will balance out once you pay. So let's say the correct but then a couple days later you find out that that check was not good and so now you're out a two thousand dollars because you've already went and bought this equipment. So that's whatever other charges they make on your car too. Yeah yeah, wow. Have you have you heard that.

14:07 There have been any of these people that have had their accounts taken over? I'm sure the credit cards were compromised, but where their actual accounts, financial accounts were taken over? Financial accounts. I've seen that happen before, but more prominently. I see hijack profiles on LinkedIn and also Facebook slash meta, where people will hack the credentials and then take over the profile and then start making messages to the contacts pretending to be that person to com them. One instance was a woman she's a college student, that she had her Facebook account hacked and they were sending messages claiming to be selling Taylor Swift tickets, playing on a popular artist to get people to listen and stuff. And one woman I helped get access back to her meta account that was banned. She was hacked and they were trying to calm her connections. And she's a business owner. She owns a linery and a Oh Wow cal form I believe, I forget the state she's in. But she reached out to me because she heard about my work, and I reached out to some people that met work behind the scenes to get her account back so she could continue to do business. But those are the kind of things that happen, and scammers they know that typically because of my work, the fake profiles don't perform as well anymore, so they're leaning more into taking over real accounts that are dormant and have the verification mark and also pay for premium, And so that's the way they're trying to advance their.

15:32 Scamming, so that they pay for premium. Like with LinkedIn, Right, you can pay for premium, and it tells you because I get those notifications, you know, every now and then this says, hey, you know twenty people checked out your profile. Reactivate your premium and you can see who it was. And I haven't done it, but you know, it's pretty pricey to reactivate it. But what's the Why would a scammer be looking for someone that's got the premium? Is it because they have more Their account is able to do more things, see more things. Correct, You have more, Yeah, you have extended reach. You have more messages that you're able to send because with a base account, I think you can only send about thirty or forty messages per week.

16:20 But with a premium, you can have like two hundred or more, right, Yeah, like a tree or something like that. And you have more yeah, correct, and you can send more connection requests as well. But it also comes with the authority that people view when they see premium, because if you're paying to have this extended reach, you must be a real professional, because who would pay for something and use it through fraudulent means? Right, And that's how scammeras operate because if you can one person and they have marginal credit, what I say, you can get a credit card for three hundred dollars or more if you steal their identity, so that fee is just a negligible cost. Right. It's somebody that has the higher credit scores, then you're more apt to get a higher credit limit, even you know, with impersonating them.

17:09 And that's interesting because. TransUnion just had a breach and you know, there was a lot of personal information stolen with that, and I would imagine credit scores are part of it, right, yeah. Correct, And they target people with certain job titles like executive or they'll pretend to have certain job titles like VP and whatnot. And speaking of TransUnion, a common scam that I've seen over the past year is they'll have fake jobs posted on LinkedIn that lead to a Google site, and the Google site form will have this fake application, but part of the application process is paying twenty nine to ninety nine for a background check through TransUnion. Okay, but it's a way to get your credit card information because a background check only happens after you've gotten offer officially. Well, then you have the background check, and you never are supposed to.

18:04 Pay for that, right, And that all makes sense. And but whether someone is in a dire need for a job, right like financially they're they're running out of funds. They need to have a job to be able to live and get their basic needs. Their emotions then are like, oh my god, this is the perfect job, and they must really like me. They want me to do a background check. Sure, I'll pay thirty you know, twenty nine ninety nine. And their emotions take over, and so. They say that in the language I'm sorry, no I was. Gonna say, And so they're not thinking rationally, right, they get them into an emotional state, you know, whatever it is another you know, it could be like, this is the perfect job, but you need to act now. We've got ten people behind you waiting in line, and if you don't act in the next twenty four hours.

18:56 So they have a lot of the kind of same. Scam techniques that you see in a wide variety of scams. Yeah, and they say that on the Google site forms that I've seen, they say, in order to be considered as a candidate or an applicant, you have to do this payment portion of it, and that's a way to force the issue with you. But if you take a step back, because the way to counter this is to slow things down. I tell people to take executive power over their job search because just because you're out of work, it doesn't mean you've lost your value. You only lost your job. And when you put in this position of what I call layoff PTSD, because it's traumatic, you're thinking about all the people you're responsible for and how you're going to provide for them, and you see how bad the job market is, then you're like jumping at everything that seems real. But if you step back and you ask yourself, well, why is this position so fast tracked?

19:47 When I see countless, if not millions of other people saying it's taking them twelve months or longer to find a job, what is it? Where is this oasis? And why they find me? And that's how you can step outside of yourself and see that it's it's not real. Right, And you know that's the we created a couple of years ago it's called an anatomy of a scam because we found when we were doing these presentations that we would talk about like the top five scams that are targeting the seniors. But the minute you leave, right there's three new scams out there. You wake up the next day and you know they've taken like the pig butchering, they've taken some investment scams and some of the techniques from the romance scam and put you know, put them together and came up with this new scam. So we created this Anatomy of a scam, which really breaks scams down into three parts. And the first one is they have to contact you right wide variety and your your cell phones are a big way that they're going to contact you. And so, you know, we tell people you got to treat those like a mobile computer, because it is a computer. If you know it's attached the internet.

21:01 You know, you can message, you can get your emails, you can go into encrypted apps like WhatsApp, you can do your social media profiles in there. You can message through those social media profiles. You know, getting the phone calls a whole bunch of you know, different ways to contact you. So you have to treat it like a mobile computer and lock it down like you would your iPad or your laptop or your desktop. And the second part is that creating that compelling reason to act. And this is where we say, if you can cut it off at the contact, then you've you're not moving into that second phase, which is the emotional phase, which you know with one of the tips, we say, be aware of your emotions. And it's like, you know, I get it if you're If they got you in that emotional state, it's hard for you to then think rationally and go, wait, I need to be aware of my emotions, right, which is why you always need to have somebody to talk to before you act on anything, because sometimes just saying the situation out loud, your mind flips over and you're like, Okay, that doesn't make sense, right.

22:14 That's what I tell people too, I say read the email out loud because it's a psychological thing because when you're reading something but it's in your mind, you're already accepting the information, but where you're verbally saying it, it's external and so you haven't accepted it. Right, which is like talking to your trusted person right that they can they're going to realize it's a scam because you know they're not emotional about it. They're not emotionally vested in it like you are. And they're going to start asking you questions and you're going to answer the questions, and then through that back and forth, psychologically your mind flips and you're like, Okay, now I get it right. Yeah, And then another common tactic regarding the anatomy of a scam is the uneu exchange of information. And so you look and you get this email because I get emails all the time about exciting writing opportunities, but I know the verbiage, I know how they present it, so I know it's fake even from the title of the email.

23:13 But the common hallmark is you're giving all this information, you're divulging so much, and you know next to nothing about this person. They'll go as far as use somebody else's picture, use detailed signatures, and even link to real LinkedIn profiles. But really, what do you know about this person other than the fact that they contacted you about an email, or they contacted you about prescription, or they contacted you about vulnerability that leads to one of your accounts being compromised and they can help you get it back. It's like, who is this person, where are they actually working, like, don't take anything and face valuable right. And it's unfortunate, right, especially with the older adult population telling them that you can't trust anything anymore. That's heart wrenching.

24:00 I'm in that population. So we grew up trusting people. We would meet somebody and we trusted them. In ninety nine point nine percent of the time, you were good to go because the world was just so much different in the seventies and eighties. Yeah, the door unlocked a night, Yeah. Yeah, you left your right your car unlocked in the driveway your house, you know, Oh I forgot to lock the door. Oh who It's fine, you know, nobody's going to break in. And ninety nine point nine percent of the time that was that was accurate. And then telling this population that you you can't trust anybody anymore until they've earned your trust, you verified what's going on, right, and it's just it's it's devastating that they have to change their whole way of life.

24:52 This is why I tell people to stay vigilant, because there's a difference between the vigilance and paranoia. Paranoia is I can't trust anybody, what do I do? And vigilance is I shouldn't trust anybody. Here's what I do. And so it's providing you actionable information and giving you the power that you think you lost, because that's what happens is when you get older, you think like you're more susceptible to things. People take advantage of the elderly because they think they're easier targets. And if you have mental issues like to mention whatnot, then that. That just compromise you. Yeah, it does. Yeah, you know. And so like you said, you know, we don't stop it just saying you can't trust anybody anymore. You need to verify what's going on, and then they can earn your trust, but you have to verify that they are legitimate.

25:41 They are who they say they are, the situation is accurate, You've verified it through legitimate channels. So I was going to ask you with this artificial intelligence, is there like an app or something And I just thought of this out of the blue that but somebody could like put a upload a picture to it and it would come back and say, no, this is the actual picture, or this has been this has been altered through artificial intelligence, or the same with like a voice recording, or you know, throwing an email into it is there. I mean, I don't even know if that can be done.

26:24 Well, there's currently reversed image searching, so that's a way that I find a lot of these fake profiles that steal people's pictures because these scameras, they'll go as far as using face swop technology, which I've revealed in my different cases. They'll use age filters, so they'll make a picture older or they'll make it younger to throw off any reverse image detection. But I find those and typically what you do is you open the picture in a new tab, right click it, and then click Google Visual Search or Google image search, and it'll give you whatever results or wherever else this picture appeared. So like let's say the profile on LinkedIn if you're an older person looking for a job, and the person's name is Jane Thompson.

27:05 But then because they use generic American sounding names to try to get trust that way, but if you google that image and then you see Jane Thompson, Kate Owens and other names like. Thirty or forty pictures all the same pictures, correct, you. Have evidence there of a fake profile that's been used many times. And then typically it leads you to a stock photo, because if it's used that many times, it's typically a stock photo or a picture of some professional from years ago, because they'll go back in time and take a picture from years ago of somebody so they can avoid the current person finding out. Okay, does that Google image search? Does it actually tell you which is the actual legitimate picture that you know?

27:54 You might have all of these same pictures, but it actually this legitimate picture belongs to this person. It can if it's not heavily used, like I give it like a seventy five to eighty percent accuracy rate, because there are different other methods that I use to find different pictures, because it's not just that Google imasearch, because there are a lot of times where I know a picture is fake, but Google im research will give you no results. But I always say, like, if you have to even go through that route, I would just like just discontinue engaging altogether, because in a job search, you may miss real opportunities by being vigilant. But it's better to err on the side of caution and be like, no, it's okay, I'll just go along with it and then have your savings.

28:38 Drained well exactly right. That's you don't want to. And I've actually talked to seniors. This one lady in particular, a few years back, she had received an email, you know, with the tech support refund scam, and it came they were impersonating one of the larger companies, and she had actually had antivirus software with that company legitimately, but she thought she had canceled it, and so she immediately thought it was real and called the phone number in the email, and and you know, they said, well, we you know, we already took the money, so let's put it back in your account. And you know, too many zeros and they're going to get in trouble, they're going to get fired.

29:26 And so you know, she went and got the money and and they're I think did it online maybe I'm not sure how it was, and gave it back to them. But then they were able to access her home equity line of credit. And they they they. Maxed it out and and so she lost even more money. But yet she's having to pay this back every month on some money she never got. So yeah, it yes, because they're playing on the fear of losing your information security by saying that you were charged charge that was not authorized, and then they played they double the legitimacy by using a company you're actually affiliated with or were affiliated with, and from there they get you on the phone, they say they need to remote into your computer. They will walk you through this mirrored or entirely fake website and then they'll say if you just download this product, and typically it's any desk that they use, and you give them access to remote in, and then they'll use like a screen blocker, but you can't see it, so they'll have you type in this information, but you don't know that they actually typed into extra zero.

30:37 And because I think you did it, you feel bad. So that's the negative feeling. And they're like, no, I'm going to get fired. And you know, you know, they do all that to play on your art strings. And you go to your bank and take out some money, send it through a Western Union or wise. Some quick way, right, yeah. And then by the time you realize what happened, it's too late. It's too late, right, the money because the wiring the Western Union, it's instant, right, and you know there's no I was going to say, there's some you know in Western unions they have the signs, and their tellers might suspect that they're being scammed and they'll ask questions. And same thing with banks, right, the banks are getting really good at teaching their employees on how to recognize scams and questions to ask. But this lady in particular that I talked to, she said, the bank teller, she knew I was being scammed and asked me questions.

31:35 She goes, but I flat out lied. Because the scammer kept her in that emotional state and told her that the teller was going to be asking these questions suspecting it's a scam. Just tell her this, and tell the teller this, and and you know, then you'll be able to just we'll be able to finish the transaction. So it's yeah, it's it's crazy. And so our whole thing is to get them to recognize at the contact right that they need to, like you said, pause and stop and research and investigate and verify what's going on before they act on anything, because once you flip over into that emotional state, it becomes so much harder to think rationally and determine it's a scam.

32:28 Correct, Yeah, it's financial abuse is just like domestic abuse where somebody gets into your life and they slowly isolate you. And that's what the scammers do. They isolate you from your real help. And so in that scenario, they're saying like, oh, the teller is incompetent. They're sowing seeds of distrust and the actual people you should trust. So if they're asking these questions, they painted like, oh, they're just being overly cautious. I'm legitimate. How else would I know you had? You know this anti virus company? How else would I know this if I wasn't legitimate? And so they put you mentally on their side, and it's disgusting. Yeah, it is. It's that that's a good word for it. It's it's disgusting. So you mentioned the Google image search and stuff like that. Is there are there any other like tech savvy detection skills that you I don't know that you I know you said you were on NBC News and Yahoo News and uh so any other like tech savvy detection skills that you have that you use to help people, or maybe that you talk about when you get the information out about what you do.

33:43 Sure, anytime I discover someone who has been impersonated or someone who has had their likeness or image taken. I'll reach out to that person and say, hey, this profile is impersonating you. Here's a link to it, here screenshots of it. If I see emails that are being used but they aren't affiliated with the real person at all, else sudden to them. I've gotten emails taken down through takedown requests. I've gotten a couple of websites taken down through takedown requests. There was a Kleinily scam involving artists and talent for some time. It's still ongoing, but I'm still working on that one where scammer pretends to be a real artist and talent celebrity, but they're celebrity. Oh okay, No, artists and talent is a recruitment firm. Oh, basically they're pretending to Yeah, they're pretending to be a recruiter that works for that firm and emailing people about job opportunities and major companies to make it sound attractive, but really they're impersonating her entirely to scam people out of their information.

34:39 So I'll share that with the people. I'll let them know how to report different things. Where to find a link to the fake profile and then I'll also file a case with LinkedIn. Okay, So I know there's a lot of fake profiles on Facebook and Meta. We've actually reported, you know, when we see them and we know they're fake, we report them, but we inevitably get the found nothing back. We found nothing. Wrong, it doesn't violate our community standards, and so we're not going to take it down. And it's like it seems, but I think it's their technology that's automatically going through and looking at the profile and they haven't broken any community standards because the technology that they're using only goes so far. So a good example is in at the end of August, we had our company, Rose's Facebook page went down and my personal page went down, and I'm like, what's going on. I haven't done anything on my personal page.

35:42 The majority of what I do is share posts from Rose. But because we're in the scam prevention business, you know, Rose puts out you know, probably four to five times a week, you know, we post and it's information about you know, helpful tips or about new data breach and hacks or new scam alerts and stuff like that, and so the technology is picking up on specific words that they see, and then they're automatically assuming that we're violating community standards because they see these words in there. Yeah, yeah, it's insane. Yeah. And then it's like when you appeal it, it goes to an actual person and then I get the response back, well, our technology made a mistake, And it's like, do you think maybe you should before you take someone's profile down, you should have a real person look at what the technology came up with and actually look at the profile.

36:42 Well, this is the problem with the AI and all the layoffs, is like you're wholly handing over the business to AI, but yet you openly admit that it's making all of these obvious mistakes that it supposedly should correct because if you trust them in enough to let go of real humans, then why is it punishing real humans? And I said this in relation to LinkedIn, I'd say the reporting process it focuses on content but not intent. And so what I mean is like a knife can cut a cake or it can cut a person, it's about the intent. And so these reporting metrics of this AI, what it does is it looks at the content of in this example, a job description. Now, if you look at job description as it's written. Of course, there's no violation.

37:26 They're not using any foul language, they're not insulting, doing anything like that. But the intent of this job description is to lead you to, like I said before, that payment portal which stills credit card information, the job was posted by a fake profile, which is identity theft right there. The business doesn't exist, or it was a website that was quickly thrown together, so the business is not real. All of those intentional actions are meant to harm you. But if you're just looking at content, of course you're not going to find something wrong. Well the end, that's the thing is like AI is and I'm not I don't know a lot about AI, and I'm not a app developer, and you know, in the technology end of it. But it seems to me that AI is only as good as what people are prompting.

38:17 In the room. Yeah, and and and what what people are putting into it. So where you can think in certain instances that AI can detect the outcome, the true outcome without human intervention. I think somebody has missed the mark on that because you're you're you're missing you're you're missing the human component to it, like you said, with a knife, right, it can cut a person, and it can cut the cake. And if you're looking at the content, nothing's wrong. But if it's cutting a person, obviously that's wrong, right, correctly, and so and.

38:57 It's a shame because you know, you talk about their technology and having the ability to change it, but they have sixteen billion reasons not to. I mean, we saw the report that just came out about the scam ads and they made sixteen billion from that. So you know, you have to look at where the money is going. And so if the money is going here, and where it's going is to the denigration and the hurt of real people, well then you have a balancing You have a decision to make at that point. It's either, like I say, all money is in good money, So are you going to take this money and allow the people to fall by the wayside, or are you going to forego that and protect the people. Yeah, And you know it's interesting because when I was trying to work through it took me probably a month or six weeks to get my personal account back up.

39:46 Exactly, and as money lost, reputation damage like well. Right, and you know I was very honest with our supporters and stuff. I'd put it in the newsletters and say, you know, the Facebook got taken down. I don't know why. We're trying to figure it out. We're trying to get it back up. We haven't done anything wrong. And it was they took three of the pictures down because they said it violated their cybersecurity community standards. And when I appealed it, they, of course, like I said, came back and said, well, we've determined our technology made a mistake, right, and then yeah, and it's like and then as soon as it came back up, like a week later, it was like they're taking a few more pictures down. It's like, how do I get in touch with somebody over there and say to them people, this is what we do.

40:35 And if you had somebody look up what we do. Look at our website. It's a valid website. We own it, right, it's we own this you know Facebook and LinkedIn account, and it's legitimate, right, it's scam prevention. So yes, we're going to have the word scams, We're going to have the word breach hacked, We're going to have all that stuff in our post. But I can't get a hold of any anybody over there and you know, get them to you know, I don't know, somehow flag our account to say, listen, if your technology is going to take this account down, you need to have a human intervene and look at it. Like like I said earlier, it's insane. And the reason I said evidence is because the AI or the automated detection systems as it's referred to as, anytime a report is made, they're going to err on this could be real, let's take it down. But then when you appeal it, oh, it could be it's real now, so we'll put it back.

41:35 So that means there's no review happening, because if a real human looked at it, there would be no way that this would just be automatically taken down. Then the bad side about that reporting thing is when you get reported now, all of a sudden, you're on the radar for wrong reasons, and then other things come down by just because you were flagged. And it's a shame because it hurts real people, but the scammers can continue to operate unchecked. And it's not much different on LinkedIn, Like there are certain words that get flagged, like if you call a scammer a scammer. The bubble will come up that says, when you try to post the comment, are you sure you want to post this comment because it's been flagged previously by members of the community. If you say the word idiot, if you if you use a phrase pig butchering like that gets flagged because it's thought to be like harmful. But at the same time, people can openly put the phrase LinkedIn accounts for sale, LinkedIn account leasing by LinkedIn accounts.

42:34 And it's fine. And the list goes on and on, and these are clear violations. You're not supposed to sell your account, you're not supposed to lease it, And that stuff just goes on unchecked. Well, because each one of those words by themselves are not harmful, but a few of the other words by themselves can be looked at as harmful, but they're not looking at the whole context of it, right, you know. And it's interesting you say, you know, err on the side of caution, take the take the profile down until you can review it, and then if it's valid, put it back up on the You would think the same thing would work for the ads side of it, right, even though they're paying money and buying ads. If it look, if the technology finds this stuff, take it down and err on the side of caution, review it, and then bring it back up. But like you said, there, it's where you said, sixteen million or billion dollars just came out and they're making me yeah.

43:33 Yeah, yeah, so it's hard to err on the side of caution when the money is so. Good, right, And I often say the two things that get people into trouble or are money and power. They aren't bad, but it's when you all. Know they're not bad, but they make some people think it's okay to do things they normally wouldn't do because of power. And then the money. Right, I have this power, I'm not going to get in trouble and I'm going to make all this money. So yeah, yeah, I'm not saying I'm not saying the social media profiles are doing that. I'm just saying in general.

44:16 Yeah, for the people that misuse power, I misused money, it's because before they had both, they were already that kind of person and so now that they have the ability to act. And it's just enhances it. Yeah, it makes them be who they were already. Yeah, they're moral compass points south. What I like to say, but so we've only got about five minutes left, and I well, actually you and I only have excuse me, a couple of minutes left. But what are some things that people can do if they're out there looking for a job and they're you know, looking, whether it's somebody posting on Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever, what are some initial things that people can do to sort of verify what's going on.

45:08 Always check with people that you know, like loved ones, if you're an elderly person looking for work, or just in general you get a message, reach out to your nieces, nephews, younger people, or people within your orbit and ask questions like hey, what do you think of this? Because the process needs to be slowed down. The minute you're going rapidly, that's when you're in trouble. So always ask people the external and outside of you, what's going on? What do you think of this? And usually if they're like in the know, they'll be like, hey, I think you should avoid that second, you know, reach out to me. I have a website, it's theprofiler dot org. I have a ton of information there in my cases and different resources to help you stay safe and take take more control and more power over your job search if that's what you're doing as an older professional, and more control over your information. You know, visit you know different websites that are repeople that post about scam content like yours and others.

46:01 Because it's just the time of mass bombardment, mass scamming. I call it the age of chaos. And in that time, what you have to do is first, slow down, reach out to the people that you're trusted and reach out to me, reach out to Joyce. Those those are our first those are our first two tips. Yeah, yeah, first to reach out to Joys and myself. Reach out to people in your network, ask questions and step outside of you. But the biggest and I say the biggest takeaway is admit that you don't know everything, because you know, when you're an older person, you know like you have wisdom and things like that, but there's still blind spots. So admit that you might be in the road or down the road of being taken advantage of and if you were scammed, and share your story because it's no knock against you for being scammed. There's this stigma that happens when people are scammed that you're thought to be, you know, not smart, but anybody can scam it anytime. Yeah, and so share your stories. The more people know, the more people know how to avoid things, and that will help bolster this community.

47:07 And one of the things is what do you think if they so like, say they found a job on LinkedIn, whoever it is. It could be a twenty year old, it could be an eighty year old. They found a job on LinkedIn, And if they typed into their internet browser whatever the job is, and said what scam or fraud after it, there's probably a good chance something would come up where someone else has found it to be a fraud or scam and they've reported it. And I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Do you do you think that's another viable resource for someone to do, just to kind of see what information's out there.

47:51 Correct. Yeah, there are different sites like Reddit and glassdoor. If you just type in the company name and then scam, typically what you'll find are a bunch of first hand accounts from other people who have had experiences with this company or also show you whether or not there are different name iterations of this business quote unquote, because what cameras typically do is they change the business thing multiple times, but keep running the same scam because it works. So yeah, it'll definitely give you a leg up and more information. Okay, yeah, because they'll change the name just a little bit. Yeah, they always has solutions or private limited or global enterprise solutions. Like it's grandiose titles, but there's nothing behind it.

48:32 They'll keep the If there's a like a one or two words in the name of a company that people that's popular with people to know the company, they'll keep those, but they'll change the other words to so people will see those two and go okay, yeah, that must be that company, correct, Yeah, yeah, okay, Well awesome, Thank you Jase so much for all this information. I think it helps, like I said, not only the newly the new people you know, uh eighteen twenty twenty two years old getting into the workforce, but it's going to help everybody all the way up and through into the retirement ages that are looking for work as well. So really appreciate your uh your information. Your website is profiler dot org. Is that correct? Oh, you froze a little bit.

49:27 I think it's profiler dot. Filer dot org. It's what filer dot org. Okay, profiler dot org. Okay, very good, profiler dot org. Oh, the profiler dot org. Sorry, the profiler dot org. All right, I need to wrap it up here or one's going to be uh messaging me in the chat. So thanks again, Jay. Love to have you back sometime in the future for another chat. But thank you for your information. All right, I love to be back and thank you. Thank for having me. Yep, you're welcome. All right, everyone, that's it. We're out of time. Don't forget to go to the website Roseadvocacy dot.

50:07 Org and. Sign up for our newsletters and subscribe to the our YouTube channel and this radio show so you don't miss an episode. Thank you until next week. Well that's all the knowledge for this episode. Tune in every Tuesday at eight am Pacific time on KFOURHG Radio at KFOURHD dot com as Joyce explores a variety of knowledge. So you have the power to make scam protection your healthy habit, and until then, feel free to reach out to Joyce and let's talk about scams.