April 16, 2024

Scammed: A Deep Dive into Government Impersonation Frauds

Show Notes
Transcript

This episode of “Let’s Talk About Scams,” host Joyce Petrowski, founder of R.O.S.E. Resources/Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly, takes us through a harrowing impersonation scam story shared by Sonny, whose wife became a victim of scammers skillfully posing as various government officials. From Customs, Border Patrol, and the U.S. Marshals, the scammers' used an elaborate scheme to scam! Together, Joyce and Sunny dissect the step-by-step manipulation process, from the initial fraudulent call under the guise of a customs official to the eventual demand for a Bitcoin ATM deposit. Join Joyce as she unpacks this real-life situation to equip and educate listeners on safeguarding themselves against such sophisticated scams. Key Episode Takeaways:

Impersonation scams can involve sophisticated stories with scammers posing as officials from multiple government agencies.
Emotional manipulation is a key tactic used by scammers to prevent victims from thinking clearly and questioning the scam.
The importance of having a trusted person to consult with before making any decisions under pressure.
Continuous education and awareness are crucial for protecting oneself against scams.
Scammers exploit victims' fears of legal trouble and tarnished reputations to coerce them into compliance.

Remember, knowledge is power—subscribe to "Let's Talk About Scams" podcast to stay updated on ways to safeguard your well-being against scams. Share what you've learned with your loved ones and stay vigilant. Stay safe and informed! Visit https://www.roseadvocacy.org/ for additional resources and newsletters to safeguard against scams. Disclaimer: The information contained in this podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual professional/legal advice. The podcast information was carefully compiled from vetted sources and references; however, R.O.S.E. Resources/Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly cannot guarantee that you will not fall victim to a scam.

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Welcome back to Let's talk about scams. I'm your host,

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Joyce Petrowski, founder of Rose Resources Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly.

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You can find more information on our website at Roseadvocacy

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dot org. We have plenty of resources. We have our

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social media links, and on the homepage if you scroll down,

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you can sign up for our newsletters. We have an

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emailed one and a mailed one, and we have a

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contact us form that you can fill out. If you

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have an idea for an episode or you want to

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share a story, just fill out the contact us form

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and we'll see what we can do about getting that

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on a future episode. So today I want to talk

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to you about an impersonation scam, and that dealt with

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scammers impersonating different government offices and the end result was

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money going into a cryptocurrency atm machine. And so there's

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a gentleman that would like to share his story.

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His name is Sonny.

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So Hi, Sonny, thank you for being willing to share

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your story with us today. Could you give us some

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background on what happened the scam situation?

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Okay, so a couple of weeks ago, I was out

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of town on business and My wife was at work

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and she got a phone call, and when she answered

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the phone, the lady immediately said, hello, this is Sarah

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Melendez from customs, gave a badge number, gave a case number,

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and asked, you know, for her by name, and she said, yes,

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this is her. And she was informed by this customs

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agent that her identity had been stolen and that packages

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were addressed to her that were crossing the border in

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Texas with drugs, drug paraphernalia, and tens of thousands, maybe

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even one hundred thousand dollars in cash, and they were

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addressed to her, and they even had our previous addresses.

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My wife and I have moved around a little bit

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for jobs, and so they.

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Had addresses in northern Indiana that we lived at, Southern

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Indiana that we lived at our current address we live

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at now, and another address we had moved here from

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in the last couple of years. Even two post office

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boxes we used for bills. They had all of them,

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and it seemed very real to her at that point.

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So they told her that as a result of this,

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there were warrants out for her arrest, three different warrants

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in her name in the state of Texas.

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And.

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They were confident that her identity.

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Was stolen and it wasn't really her, but she needed

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to clear her name. So then she was told she

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needed to speak with someone from Border Patrol, so they

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forwarded her to Border Patrol, and now Border Patrol. He

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gets on the phone and he says, hello, this is

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Dennis Smith. Badge number, phone number, case number, all that stuff. Again,

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I'm really the one that's gonna help you clear your name.

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Here's what we need to do, so you do have

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and he told her specifically, you got two options. You

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have a court date two days from that in also Texas,

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and we live in Tennessee. So obviously you're not gonna

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make it from Tennessee to l Passo, Texas in a day,

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so I mean, unless you're gonna fly and all that stuff.

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So obviously that's not an option. So the other option

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is freeze all your assets, get a new driver's license,

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get a new Social Security card, and any form of

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ID will have to be replaced as well, and they

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can help you do all of that. So she says,

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I can't get there obviously, and so he goes, all right, well, okay, well,

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since you can't make it to the court date. We're

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gonna have the US Marshals get on the phone with

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you and they're gonna give you step by step details

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on what you need to do. And she's like okay.

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So they get the US Marshalls on the phone. Forward

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forwards are calling out at this point, and so now

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she's talking to the US Marshals and the guy gets

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on the phone and this name isn't a common name,

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so that really made it seem more real, right, got it?

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So he says, hello, this is John Gardinson and he

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gave a technical term she couldn't recall exactly what he used,

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some legal term for helping her out, and he talked

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about some sort of ADR approval and gave her a

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form number. Okay, and that's when he went into the

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detail about the multiple account even there's multiple bank accounts.

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With your name on him now in and wow. So

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that's when it gets into the Okay, here's what we

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need you to do.

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We need to protect your assets and at the same

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time verify that because we genuinely believe it's not you, but.

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We need to verify it's not you.

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So we need to freeze your assets and in order

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to do that we need you to go with your

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all your cash from your checking and savings account. She

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goes and at the whole time she's on the phone,

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she's driving to the bank, and they're not letting her think, right,

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like the whole the whole process is, don't ever get

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a chance to collect your thoughts, just constantly one problem,

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then another problem, then another challenge, and every time she

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would ask a question, they would divert her thoughts because

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they don't want her to collect have a moment to think.

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They want to keep her in that emotional state of

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fear exactly.

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And so once the guy tells her once to verified accounts.

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Once they verify her accounts aren't associate with any of

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the money, then it'll be accessible. And in order to

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do that, she needed to turn her money over to them.

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So once it was completed, once all this was done,

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that they would send a marshall to our house the

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next day with new Social Security new IDs and the

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money and they would hold the money in the meantime.

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And so that was when she was given directions to

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go with her all the money from the account, and

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they directed her to a bitcoin machine where she was

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to deposit the money and so she does all this

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stuff because she obviously she'd you know, they she doesn't

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want a bad name, right, She's a team teach, so

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she can't. She could lose her jobs, she could lose

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her career friends, you know.

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All this stuff.

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So she does exactly what they tell them to what

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they tell her to do, and the whole time she's

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talking to multiple people, and it was just one thing

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after another, and she was She received the phone call

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ten thirty in the morning, and the transaction at the

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bitcoin machine took place less than two hours later, so

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the whole time she was on the phone, it was

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a two hour call. And they told her don't talk

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to anybody else because it would be suspicious behavior. If

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you're trying to maybe you're prompting people. So we can't

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have you talking to other people because that would look

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suspicious on your part.

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And so she does all that.

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She calls me, I'm out of town and she's like, hey,

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my identity got stolen, and I said, okay, that sucks,

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but we'll figure it out. And like I say, I

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was a couple hours out of town at business meetings,

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and I said, we'll figure it out. And she talks

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me through what she did about having to close the accounts,

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And at no time did she tell me that any

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transactions took place.

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She just said she had to close the accounts.

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So she gets home and my mother's living with us,

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and so she spoke with my mom, and my mom

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could tell she was really upset about something, and so

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they and she told her what happened. And my mom said,

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you know, because now my mom's got a clear head, right,

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she's not gone through all this stress.

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So my mom says, that sounds a little fishy. Let

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me make a phone call.

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And I got an uncle that works for customs up

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in DC, and my mom called him and he immediately said,

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go back to that machine right now and try to

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cancel that transaction.

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But you know, it was too late, but they did.

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They got in the car and they drove back to

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the machine and that's when she realized it was all

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a scam and a lie.

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Oh jeez, that's awful. I am so sorry that she

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had to go through that. But you know that that contact,

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so you said she got a phone call, right, So

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that unexpected contact what they impersonated some respectable government companies, right,

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And who knows if Sarah Melendez really works for customs.

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You just don't know.

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But sometimes even with the government, you know, organizations, they'll

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have pictures of people and their names on the website,

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you know, is what department they're in and all that,

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so it's easy to find and it makes it easier

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for the scammers to be able to impersonate. Anybody that

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got that call would be scared. Oh my gosh, there's

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packages in my name that have drugs in them, that

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have all this cash in them, and there's bank accounts

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in your name, and they're talking about, you know, fraudulent activity.

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And all you can do is think about, I don't

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want to go to jail. I don't want to go

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to prison. This isn't me.

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I need to fix it.

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Right, You're in that emotional state, and that's exactly what

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they do. That's the second part is that creating that

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compelling reason to act. That was them putting her in

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that emotional state of fear. And you know, you said

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they kept her on the phone the whole two hours,

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throughout the whole process because you know, a lot of

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times you go to the bank to get the money

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out or close the account, whatever it is. You know,

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a lot of the times, the bank teller will ask you, well,

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you know, why.

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Are you closing your account? What's going on? You know?

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And you know and sometimes you know the bank tellers, right,

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you have a relationship with them, and so they start

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asking questions. And you know, so scammers are really good.

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You can't talk to anybody else because that's going to

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look bad on you, you know, and and all of that,

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and so they don't just call give you that reason

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hang up and say call me back when it's done.

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They want you on the phone so they can keep

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you exactly where they want you. And like you said,

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she started to ask questions, right, they immediately just turned

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it right back to where they wanted her, which is

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in that emotional state of fear, because they wanted her

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her to get the money, get to that bitcoin machine

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as fast as possible and put it in there.

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They dictated the conversation from the minute she picked up

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the phone.

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They have exactly, and she did it exactly.

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And you know, she's she's not the only one. Thousands

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you know of people do the very same thing. And

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the big thing is is it's the emotions, right, You're

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you're in a rational state, You're in an emotional state. Well,

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when you're in an emotional state, it's hard to pick

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up on these red flags. Right, You're not going to

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think to yourself, well, you know, Customs is calling me,

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and now all of a sudden, they can just transfer

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to Border patrol and now they can transfer to the

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US Marshals government.

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It's not that efficient, you know.

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I'm glad you said that, and so you don't see

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those red flags. And then it's like, well, wait a minute.

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You know the government isn't going to ask me to

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put money into a bitcoin machine. When when is the

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government all of a sudden people paying their fines in bitcoin? Right,

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But you're in that emotional state and you don't see.

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These red flags.

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You're not thinking rationally, which is, you know, the second

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thing that we always tell people, you know, will be

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aware of your emotions, But it's hard to be aware

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of those emotions when you're in that emotional state.

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Once you're on your heels, it's not the.

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Same game exactly.

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So the second one is have that trusted person that

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you can talk to before you act on anything.

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And that's again.

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Harder to do because you're in that emotional state. And

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so if you don't have it ingrained in your mind

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to talk to that trusted person. You might not think

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about it unless she was right there with your mother,

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right to where your mother heard everything going on and

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could say wait a minute, stop, stop, stop, let me

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call my uncle. Which is why we tell people, you know,

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you can't just like listen to our presents.

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Once.

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This is a reoccurring message that we have to continually

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talk about.

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Oh yeah, and it's not to scare people.

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It's not to have everybody like look over their backs

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always wondering if someone's trying to get something from me.

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It's to have a healthy skepticism, right. And the more

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that it's a habit and it's ingrained in your mind

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and a habit, the more apt you're going to be

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to get out of that emotional state and say I

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need to talk to you know, I need to talk

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to Sonny, or I need to talk to my mother

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and whoever that person is right and say I'm really scared.

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I might go to jail.

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But then you know, as they walk through it, you're

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sitting there asking questions to get them in a rational state,

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and then they'll all of a sudden go, oh yeah,

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this doesn't make sense.

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Correct, And I mean you're talking about a person who

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wants to do the right thing, doesn't want to go

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to jail. That's the person that they want to get.

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They don't want to talk to me because I'm very direct,

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and I'm not saying I can't get scammed, because when

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you think you can't get scammed.

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You're a prime market, your prime target. You are not smarter.

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Collectively, you just like you say, you have to have

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that healthy level of skepticism.

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And it's not about living.

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Your life and fear or or being afraid of watch

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around every corner, but educate yourself, educate your family that

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if anything, my message to anybody that sees this is

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talk to your family members. I knew about this stuff

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because I watch videos and I hear about this AI

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now where they're matching your voice and calling your family

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and stuff. So I try to educate myself a little

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bit to that. But I think I should have maybe

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talked to her more about it. I'm not saying that

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would have made a difference.

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But you don't know.

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People don't don't think that your mother or your grandmother.

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I'm just thankful that it was a large amount of money,

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but it was not such a large amount of money

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that it's going to destroy us. But if we were

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eighty five years old, retired, living on fixed income, and

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they got their hands on your entire retirement account, it

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would be devastating.

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Absolutely, they don't care. They don't we don't care.

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They will take every single penny from you or your

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loved ones.

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It's so important to talk to people, you.

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Know, it is it is.

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You know, I have a lot of people say, well,

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you know, my grandparents are my parents. You know, they

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they're really smart and they still have all their cognitive

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function and they're just not going to fall for a scam.

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And it's like, okay, you know, everybody would like to

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believe that. Or they'll say, you know, they don't.

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Have any money, so there isn't anything for him to get.

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But scammers still have ways of getting money out of

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people that don't have mon I tell people scammers don't

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send out a financial survey and an IQ you know test,

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and then they get it back and go, Okay, well

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these people are on the lower end of the IQ

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and have a lot of money, so I'm going to

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go after them.

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No, they cast a wide net.

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That's correct, and they're looking for the lowest hanging fruit,

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the ones that are going to engage right away.

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Right.

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Oh.

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Yeah, you know, they've been really successful with the lowest

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hanging fruits, so they haven't really needed to go up

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the tree, but it's an option. If they're not getting

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what they want out of the initial targets right, then

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they're going to continue to go up that tree. So

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everyone is a target. Yes, Like you said, the education

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and awareness and especially I don't know how old you

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and your wife are, but I'm going to be fifty

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nine this year, and I grew up with no cell phone,

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no computer. When I'm giving presentations, you know, people chuckle

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when I say this is that we could only walk

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into on the phone as long as that cord would

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allow us, right.

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You know, there was.

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Nothing about putting a phone on the dash of your

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car and talking on Bluetooth while you were driving. That

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just didn't exist, right, And we were very philanthropic and trusting,

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so philanthropic not just money, but time, talent and treasure,

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and very trusting people. You know, you just trusted people

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that they had your best interest at heart, and you

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carry that into today's world. I think you said earlier

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a perfect storm. Oh yes, it's not that older adults

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can't protect themselves. They very well can. It's all in

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education awareness, giving them the tools on a regular basis.

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It's not just a I'm going to come listen to

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this once and get my information and I'm going to

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be fine. The IRS scam's been out there for a

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long time, years and years and years. Well, they've changed

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it up, the scammers have. And so if you're not

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falling for the initial I'm from the IRS and you

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go back taxes, it's like I'm going to put an arrest.

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Weren't in with whatever police department? And you know you're

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going to get arrested. And then the next phone call

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you get, they've spoofed the name and it says whatever

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police department, I've got an arrest warrant from the IRS.

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Now you're scared. Oh my gosh, I really do owe this.

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I need to pay it over right. They change their techniques.

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They're just really good at what they do.

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And they a team of people against.

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You exactly exactly they do.

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Because there were three different people that your wife talked to,

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it wasn't just one.

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They go into this with a plan.

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You're sitting at a cafe, or you're sitting at work,

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or you're sitting on your computer or playing a video

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game or something, and bang you get this phone call

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and now all of a sudden your life is turned

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upside down. You are not thinking clearly, And they have

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a team of people to guide you down that path.

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They know what you're going to say, and they're ready.

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For They've anticipated what you're going to say, and like

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you said, they are ready with answers and and the

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way to keep you on that path that they want

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you on, not to have you veer off, you know,

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by asking questions, by wanting to talk to somebody, and

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you know, and and another thing you know, I've actually

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heard when I've been out talking to some older adults

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is like, well you know, I don't it's rude to

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hang up on people. Well, yes, that's the way we

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were taught. My response is they're being rude to want

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to steal all your money or to you know, steal

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your identity. So don't worry about being rude on hanging

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up on them.

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And if it's important enough, they'll call you back, hang up,

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call somebody else and say hey, am I thinking clearly?

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And if it's important enough, they'll.

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Call you back.

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One thing, you talk about the things that you know,

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you're not thinking clearly. When have you ever heard, unless

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you're a celebrity, when have you ever heard of the

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police calling you and saying, hey, we got a warrant

376
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out for your arrest, they show up at your door. Right,

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that's the reality of it.

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But in the in the moment, right, that's exactly right.

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You know, I've said that to people before and they

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chuckle at that too.

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You know, the.

382
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Police, they know what you vehicle, you drive, they know

383
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.319
where you live. They are not giving you a heads

384
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.759
up if they're going to come arrest you. But again,

385
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you're in that heated moment, right, correct, You're not thinking clearly.

386
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And well I think she may.

387
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Have spoken to someone from the Treasury Department as well.

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The Treasury Department can look at your stuff.

389
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:23.759
Yeah they can.

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I mean, if they could get a warrant and they

391
00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:29.440
can go they can do a search through all of

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your finances and know where every penny came from, especially

393
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.119
with today's technology. But again, I can sit here and

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say that two three weeks after the fact, and even

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the day of the conversation with her but in that moment,

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